9. Depression, Distractions, and Dopamine
This episode is all about our current struggles with depression - so it's a long one! We start the episode by talking about when we were both struggling with a low point two months ago and then dive into talking about possible methods of helping ourselves out of these low points and understanding the different drivers that keep us going.
Highlights:
Is it possible to have TOO many plants as a millennial plant mama?
Changing external factors like our environment and the way we look to deal with how we feel internally is only temporary
Kristy likes to make a man shape with her fingers
Oxytocin, the "love hormone" and dopamine, "the achievement hormone"
Angie swears to god she's not high
Takeaways:
Talking to someone you trust, even for a little bit, can give you the boost you need to come out of the dark trenches
If it's too difficult to journal, send voice notes to yourself or someone you trust if it's something you are comfortable to share
It's not always obvious that we're depressed, and sometimes it becomes more obvious to others than yourself, but it's okay. Take the time to understand your own cycles and process
Mentions/Resources:
Oxytocin and long term relationships (Article)
Oxytocin and female orgasms (Article)
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Got a topic you want us to chat about? Have a question about mental health or adulting as an Asian American? Let us know!
More Episodes Like This
Transcript
HEADS UP: We use AI to help us transcribe so we can spend more time on the podcast. The transcription is not perfect. Please forgive any typos.
Episode 9: Distractions, Dopamine, and Temporary Happiness
Kristy Yee: [00:00:00] I have hit record.
[00:00:01]Angie Yu: [00:00:01] Okay.
[00:00:02] Kristy Yee: [00:00:26] Welcome to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom. today we are again, doing something different as per usual. I feel like our usual is now doing things. That is not our usual.
[00:00:41] Angie Yu: [00:00:41] Yep. That's right. Basically we plan shit and then we don't follow it.
[00:00:45]Kristy Yee: [00:00:45] Millennial life, you see, we plan to plan, but then we don't do what we plan to do.
[00:00:53]Angie Yu: [00:00:53] And also today we are not recording together.
[00:00:57]Kristy Yee: [00:00:57] Correct. This is very new for us. So we have no idea how this is going to
[00:01:02] Angie Yu: [00:01:02] turn out. So we apologize in advance. If you hear a little bit of shuffling or, maybe the sky train driving by, I don't know,
[00:01:11] Kristy Yee: [00:01:11] totally heard this guy chain go by.
[00:01:15] Angie Yu: [00:01:15] Okay. Hold on. I'm going to close the close the doors so that we can edit that part out.
[00:01:21]Kristy Yee: [00:01:21] No, it's funny. I liked that.
[00:01:22] Angie Yu: [00:01:24] do you want to tell our listeners why we're not recording together?
[00:01:28]Kristy Yee: [00:01:28] Sure. So the main reason is because, I mentioned In episode seven that, my mom is a little bit sick, so she has been, she just got a COVID test, the second COVID test and she needs to be quarantined and I live with her.
[00:01:44]So I just want to minimize exposure basically.
[00:01:48]Angie Yu: [00:01:48] That's right. You have
[00:01:49] Kristy Yee: [00:01:49] to do you do. I really hope it's not COBIT I don't think it's COVID, but they're doing it as a precautionary thing.
[00:01:55]Angie Yu: [00:01:55] I think it's very interesting because. I think the quarantine and everything about the corn is starting to slip people's minds
[00:02:03]Kristy Yee: [00:02:03] definitely. If there's been any, a lot of relaxation in terms of what's going on for COVID in some, some ways it's like, yeah. In at least in VC, we've done a pretty good job in terms of containing the spread of the virus. Like a lot of us that are following the rules and all that.
[00:02:19] And so therefore the ministry of health feels like it's okay to be a little bit less restrictive. And it's nice because I think people were going crazy and, you know, needing to get haircuts. I actually haven't gotten a haircut since probably January, yet. Fuck. It's July. Oh
[00:02:39]I don't want my face anyways. So today this is what happens when we don't go on the schedule. Like, because on schedule, we actually have ideas of what we want to talk
[00:02:49] Angie Yu: [00:02:49] about. We have an
[00:02:50] Kristy Yee: [00:02:50] outline of certain topics we want to touch on and we do today.
[00:02:54] We do have a topic that we want to talk about, which is why we're inserting it into the middle of our schedule.
[00:03:00] We will have guests soon. Folks who are listening. We have, we have a few guests lined up. We're really, really excited to share some of those stories and conversations with all y'alls there's just been a lot of heavy stuff, stuff with COVID and, black lives matter. And you know, some of the things that we talked about last time and episode seven, I'm feeling not so great. there's a lot of things going on in. In my life right now. you know, there's been a lot of heavy stuff, so we just gotta, we gotta talk about this.
[00:03:30] Okay. Which is why, which brings us today's episode.
[00:03:34]we want to talk about specifically going through a depressive depressive, depression, depressive episode depressive, like phase not phase a moment, a depressive moment when you we're actually feeling all of the symptoms of depression or anxiety.
[00:03:53]because when you're actually in the trenches, it's all a lot harder to do the things that we preach. Talking to someone reaching for help, you know, self care meditation. That all sounds really great when we're maintaining. And when we're managing, those are really helpful, but if you're in a depressive state and in a depressive mode, and you're having a lot of intrusive thoughts, it's much harder to practice what you preach.
[00:04:25] And that's why we wanted to open up this episode today is because I'm noticing that I am entering a depressive phase And yeah. Yeah. So we're both experiencing some things and we will want to talk about it, not just for our own stuff, sanity, but also to show an example of what it is actually like to feel these things while trying to preach or do what we preach, which is really hard.
[00:04:58] So those are some of the things that we want to touch upon today. Hmm. So, Angie, do you want to start by telling our list, our shitless, sinners? What you've been feeling lately?
[00:05:11]Angie Yu: [00:05:11] So before we jump back to the episode where Christie and I are talking about our depressive episodes over zoom, I wanted to add in and let you guys listen to a couple of clippings from WhatsApp, between Kristi and I. From when we had a conversation on the morning of June 23rd., it wasn't any special day or anything like that, but it was during a period of time where I wasn't really sleeping.
[00:05:32] And Christie was also struggling with some parts of her life, but, you know, being Christie she's really good at holding everything, you know, holding her head up, up above water. But when, you know, from as outsiders, like I even pointed out before, it's really difficult to see when someone's going through something, just because.
[00:05:52] You know, they hold or they carry themselves. Well, it doesn't mean that the shit they carry doesn't mean that the shit that Christy carries it's in heavy or the shit that I carry isn't heavy. And for myself, I personally actually don't think I'm as resilient as her. And she does it. And I'm saying this because I'm editing this episode and I'm still definitely trying to figure out my emotions, but it's always easier, you know?
[00:06:18] As an outsider. And this is kind of the conversation I want to show you guys, because when you're in the thick of it all, it's really, really hard to see out of that fog. So I was falling back into sort of a depressive episode, a not exactly a manic episode, but definitely.
[00:06:35] I was overcompensating for something.
[00:06:38]yeah, again, sometimes when you're in the thick of it all, it's really hard for us to reach out for help and sometimes a quick voice message. With a supportive friend can remind you that. Hey, are you going through something I'm here for you?
[00:06:53] Let's talk it out.
[00:06:57] Kristy Yee: [00:06:58] Tell me more about the failing part.
[00:07:01] Angie Yu: [00:07:01] Yeah, I don't, I've just been feeling like the work that I've been assigned. It's not even that difficult. but whenever I need to sit down and do work, I get like a minor panic attack because of what happened, you know, in the last, however many months before I on leave, like, I'm just so scared of failure because I.
[00:07:21]Failed before I went on leave, like I failed. And, and it's something I've never experienced before. And that panic, just really sets in and, and I was trying to sit with the panic as my therapist told me, but it just didn't really go away. And I don't think it'll go away until I actually just. Do the work. so that's why I'm up early because I couldn't sleep. Cause work was on my mind.
[00:07:48] Kristy Yee: [00:07:48] I'm hearing a few things. I'm hearing almost like a lost sense of identity because you've been associating your identity with performance. Like that's who
[00:08:04]that's like the profile that you fit into. Is you're this really smart person who gets a raise, who does really, really well at work. And so when you're not performing because of,
[00:08:16]because of how you're feeling and because you are,
[00:08:20]I think. I'm guessing I'm making assumptions. I think you're, you're underperforming maybe because, of the depression, because of the anxiety. and so those symptoms, they are. Causing you to underperform. And then when you underperform, you feel a lost sense of identity because in your mind, that's all you have is your performance, whether it's school or work.
[00:08:49]And then I think that fuels back into the depression and the anxiety, because now you've lost something that is so innately part of you, or at least part of your, external identity, if that makes sense. Ah, and then you mentioned, you know, smarts is nothing without good work ethics and that's the part of it. Like the good ethics part of it. That's what's being affected by the depression therefore you're not able to perform, but you can't. I mean,
[00:09:25]sometimes you can't really control it. You can recognize it and you can manage it, the depression, but you can't control it. Is that right? I don't know. But I think it's because of the depression that that's interfering with, your work ethics, and therefore you can't perform because in order to perform, you need to combine smartest and work ethics together.
[00:09:49] And right now the work ethics part is like being hindered and it sucks and it's affecting the work. And then, and then, because it affects the work and then if you end up underperforming, then that. That's viewed as failure, even though it might not be for everybody else, but it's viewed as failure because then you're failing your own identity.
[00:10:10] You're failing to live up to your identity and that's, that's just some, that's a vicious cycle, right. And it just keeps going round and round with depression and anxiety, like a dance. The depression is causing failure and work ethics, and then failure and work. Ethics means you may underperform. And then the underperformance will cause an anxiety.
[00:10:37]And then it just goes around and around.
[00:10:39]And so shopping almost becomes a way to distract yourself and to feel good momentarily. As I think you get a little bit of a, Hmm. I don't know what the hormone is. Maybe it's serotonin. maybe it's oxytocin. We're so not experts at this. But I think it, it gives you a head of feel. Goodness, just for a moment, because you know, you're looking at things that you, like, you got excited for wanting these things, but you don't actually want these things.
[00:11:17] You just want that feeling that it gives you when you're shopping and when you're, when you get something new, because that distracts you from how. Upsetting it is to not know who you are anymore because of this identity that's slipping away, which is being caused by depression. And we've both said the depression is not your identity, but the depression right now is causing.
[00:11:51] You to feel like you're losing your identity because it takes away your work ethics and that's, that's part of what, what depression does,
[00:12:06]what a fucking horrible dance,
[00:12:11] the depression. Secondarily causes the feeling of identity loss and the feeling of identity that you lost causes anxiety. And then the anxiety
[00:12:30]the anxiety leads to feeling worthless and that feeling of where worthlessness. Feeds into depression,
[00:12:45]fucking fucking vicious cycles.
[00:12:48]Angie Yu: [00:12:48] That is really, really good analysis, Christie. Like I am so taken back, like that's amazing. you basically captured everything. Yeah. You got, you got everything like better then I, I did. and here, yeah, from like, from a third person who basically described exactly how I'm feeling like Holy shit, like that's amazing.
[00:13:14]Kristy Yee: [00:13:14] I think this is part of the reason why there's so many reasons why it's good to talk about what we're feeling and the symptoms that we're going through wanting to help us process it better. And we've mentioned that in one of our takeaways, But also because things are so muddy in your own head as the first person that has it's, it's harder to connect those dots because you're living in that moment.
[00:13:47] And then, but for me, hearing it as a third person, because I'm not living in it, then the clarity is more. There, you know, cause I'm not clouded by all these emotions and things. So anyways, I just saw your message still put me in fucking tell period. How could I not have thought of dopamine?
[00:14:11]Angie Yu: [00:14:11] yeah. so when I first spoke to my psychologist about my symptoms, so, you know how like, between anxiety and depression, they're so intertwined. Some people have depression that's caused by anxiety, and then some people have anxiety that's caused by depression. So. People with general anxiety disorder can still get depression and people who have depression can still get anxiety.
[00:14:36] Yeah. It's so intertwined becomes like chicken and egg, but for some people it's more obvious that one comes before the other and for myself, depression is what I have and anxiety for myself as more of a secondary symptom. So yeah, you got that. Like, like this, and I'm just , so taken aback by how, intuitive you are with the stuff.
[00:14:58]Kristy Yee: [00:14:58] I don't, I don't know if it's being intuitive rather than maybe it's just because I recognize these symptoms and I recognize what it feels like to go through. Depression anxiety, even though like we have different stories and we have different experiences, but there are, there's common themes. So maybe it's just because I recognize some of those and.
[00:15:26]I'm not offering any solutions, you know, so it's, it's not like I could be helpful in that way, but I'm just glad I'm able to be here to talk it through with you and, and try to make sense of it at least. So there's that.
[00:15:42]
[00:15:50] Angie Yu: [00:15:50] Yeah, so, so it's been, this is currently a really tough time for me because last year, this time was a very unpleasant time of my life. So I think something to do with the temperature, the smells of freshly cut grass, the sounds of summer, just, you know, those the late, late sunsets, like all these very experiential. Things. Wow. I am so eloquent today. I just woke up from like an impromptu three hour nap, so, okay. I'm starting in the afternoon for noon. We were supposed to record at t t like one. so I think there are just a lot of things that's kind of triggering some of those, the memories and the thing is they're not. Mental memories. It's like they're triggering the emotional memories. So I
[00:16:46] Kristy Yee: [00:16:46] can just harder because that's so much heavier when you're hitting, when you're refilling certain things that aren't really fun to feel.
[00:16:55] And you're reliving that experience. Is that what I'm? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:00]Angie Yu: [00:17:00] I'm kind of reliving those emotions and. Kind of reprocessing them it a year later and yeah, it's not pleasant. So I started noticing kind of the behavior, like the avoidance behavior that was starting up again because, well, one, I like poured myself into this project, of furniture, my patio, my balcony patio makes it sound huge, but.
[00:17:21]I mean, it looks amazing.
[00:17:23] Kristy Yee: [00:17:23] Everyone was like,
[00:17:24]Angie Yu: [00:17:24] well, you did such a good job. And I guess like out of all things that I could have drown myself in drowning, myself in a home improvement project, isn't bad, but it got to a point where I was putting off all these things that are good for me to do it.
[00:17:40] And I think that's when I started noticing, Hey, this behavior is now not even an improvement thing. It's, it's literally a distraction for me right now. Hmm. So I wasn't exercising. I wasn't feeding myself properly. I wasn't even sleeping properly. I spent, I CA I've for the last two weeks. I've probably slept in my own bed three times.
[00:18:03] Kristy Yee: [00:18:03] Oh my gosh. Angie, all the other times I've been
[00:18:06] Angie Yu: [00:18:06] just sleeping on my couch and someone else's couch. yeah. And it's been hard. like, I can't even really describe because it's not my reality right now. My reality right now is wonderful. I'm really enjoying my life. I'm enjoying this podcast. but. I cannot rationalize the emotions away.
[00:18:31]Like I have no control over my emotions and there are sometimes they just kind of take over my life.
[00:18:38]Kristy Yee: [00:18:38] Well, the emotions are not logical, so you can't rationalize something. That's not
[00:18:43] Angie Yu: [00:18:43] logical. That's right.
[00:18:45]Kristy Yee: [00:18:45] . I feel like the home improvement project, the beginning of it was very therapeutic for you and it served a lot of purpose because it gave you a lot of meaning. It gave you a creativity outlet. you know, you felt really good about it because you were, you did things on your own.
[00:19:02] You. build shit. You use the drill goddamn, you know, it's really, it's really fulfilling to like, create something and have the ability to buy all the things that you want and then make the things from your own bare hands and then, express your creativity in that way. But I also felt like as a person who watched your patio grow and, and continue to wash your.
[00:19:27]Urban forest grow. I thought to myself, like, is it getting to a point where it's you have too many plants? Now,
[00:19:41] my first thought is filling in the holes of something
[00:19:45] Angie Yu: [00:19:45] else. Oh yeah.
[00:19:47] Kristy Yee: [00:19:47] Before you really, really, truly became. A millennial plant mama, or is it something else? And I feel like now that we're talking about it, it might be something else because you legitimately just told me that. You're using this as a distraction.
[00:20:06] It came from a good place at first, and it was very productive in that sense, but it has now since turned into something else where you are distracting yourself from feeling the emotions that you need to feel, and those emotions are being triggered by the season and being decided, or because what had happened last year.
[00:20:28] All of these things were happening too. Like the sun was shining and flowers are blooming. People are wearing shorts, smell the grass.
[00:20:36] Angie Yu: [00:20:36] Yeah. It's like the environment. It's not like one thing that triggers these memories is it's everything and yeah, you're right. , when it first started, it the felt good.
[00:20:47] You know, and it was kind of like, I was just looking to repeat that good feeling like
[00:20:52] Kristy Yee: [00:20:52] drugs.
[00:20:53] Angie Yu: [00:20:53] That's right.
[00:20:55] Kristy Yee: [00:20:55] And when you have a hit of the drugs that are feels good, you want to, you want to repeat that feeling again?
[00:21:01] Angie Yu: [00:21:01] That's right. It was the dopamine, the dopamine of like, achievement, right? Like this hit of dopamine.
[00:21:06] And I just keep looking for that dopamine. I'm literally chasing. D.
[00:21:12] And, but I think what I really miss is the oxytocin and you can't get that from any sort of achievement. It can only be achieved from soothing behaviors and I knew it was a problem when I told myself like, Hey, this is enough for now.
[00:21:30] Kristy Yee: [00:21:30] Yeah.
[00:21:30] Angie Yu: [00:21:30] And that's when I can tell I'm submitting to my impulses when I can no longer control my actions on my impulsive behavior, which is just. Throwing money at the problem, because for me, this is just throwing money at improving my home.
[00:21:45] When I keep telling myself stop buying shit. And when I come home and I'm like, Hmm, I wanted to go in to look for one thing, I came home $300 later and I'm like, I have
[00:21:57] Kristy Yee: [00:21:57] a problem. Yeah. I'm not even gonna sugar coat that yeah. I
[00:22:05] Angie Yu: [00:22:05] just arrived and I opened the Amazon package.
[00:22:07] I'm like, Hmm. I
[00:22:08] Kristy Yee: [00:22:08] have a problem. Did it feel good? Did you get that surge of dopamine that you wanted from hoping the Amazon package?
[00:22:15] Angie Yu: [00:22:15] For sure.
[00:22:16]
[00:22:16] Kristy Yee: [00:22:20] You know, when you talked about the environment and how that could be triggering right now.
[00:22:25] You're doing home improvement stuff. you're changing the look of your environment.
[00:22:31]Angie Yu: [00:22:31] That's right.
[00:22:32] Kristy Yee: [00:22:32] And I wonder if there's some sort of, you know what I mean? Like my
[00:22:36] Angie Yu: [00:22:36] brain just went, Holy shit. You know what? That's the Holy shit. I'm trying to change my environment and anything that's external because those things are so easy to change and to control because I'm hoping that it'll change something on the inside, but it's not going to.
[00:22:54] Kristy Yee: [00:22:54] And I wonder if you're also trying to change the fact that the environment was triggering you and so you're changing your own environment and you know, how people. Change their looks, but instead of changing your looks, you're not going to get a haircut, but you're changing the look of the place that you live in which in itself reminds you of, you know, the triggering events or, or the traumatic event.
[00:23:16]Angie Yu: [00:23:16] last year when the emotions were kind of more intense, I did do that. I was so focused on changing my appearance. I put myself through these like crazy diets. so that I could look a certain way. I got a tattoo to change my appearance, you know, bought new clothes, stuff like that. I definitely did do that.
[00:23:24] And it was, again, trying to change the way I looked because I was trying to change something about me because that was easier to control than what was inside and. Of course, you know, this was before going to therapy. So I didn't see any of it as a problem, but I did get really sick, like, so last year around this time was
[00:23:34] about month into the whole thing.
[00:23:34] And, I had dramatically lost like 20 pounds over the course of a few weeks. Oh my gosh, because I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping. I lost my appetite. Like I had an eating disorder for a couple of months because every time I ate, I would want to throw up. and I wasn't sleeping. I was probably sleeping like two or three hours a night,
[00:23:34] yeah, exactly. It was bad. It was really bad. so yeah, I was trying you're right. Like I'm trying to change the environment.
[00:23:39]Kristy Yee: [00:23:39] Why don't you tell, tell us what are some of the symptoms that you're feeling now? Cause you mentioned you're entering that depressive state. Again, I don't want that been like for you.
[00:23:50]Angie Yu: [00:23:50] so I noticed my symptoms of, of depression is one. I, I can't sleep. So I fall asleep in front of the TV watching Brooklyn nine, nine for the 17th time.
[00:24:02] Kristy Yee: [00:24:02] Hmm.
[00:24:02] Angie Yu: [00:24:02] Cause it's familiar sounds it's
[00:24:05] Kristy Yee: [00:24:05] comforting and it's comforting.
[00:24:07] Angie Yu: [00:24:07] Yeah, that's right. And, I don't want to be home
[00:24:16] and one of the other really bad symptoms that really affects my life is, not being able to focus up on work, like on my day job.
[00:24:27]Kristy Yee: [00:24:27] And that's really hard for me because
[00:24:27] Angie Yu: [00:24:27] when I'm.
[00:24:27] Depressed doing these things like, you know, watching something comforting, like Brooklyn nine, nine, like, I can't even watch other TV because I don't have the mental capacity to watch anything else or to even read or do anything that I enjoy. Normally I'm
[00:24:27] Kristy Yee: [00:24:27] like assessing anything new because it takes a lot of energy to process something new.
[00:24:27] So you would just be able to process something that you are, you are already familiar with. That's right.
[00:24:27] Angie Yu: [00:24:27] So, which is, you know, watching Brooklyn nine, nine for the 17th time. And I don't want to cook. I don't want to clean, I don't want to put away my laundry. I have now two loads of clean laundry on my bed, which is why I keep sleeping on my couch because I dumped my clean laundry on my bed, telling myself you don't deserve sleep.
[00:24:43] until you put away your laundry,
[00:24:45]Kristy Yee: [00:24:45] It's like this internal dialogue, like you set yourself up because you think you're outsmarting yourself by putting laundry on your bed. So it forces you to do it. But little, little does the other Angie know, it's like, well, jokes on you. I'm just not going to sleep.
[00:25:01] Angie Yu: [00:25:01] Exactly.
[00:25:07] And, Yeah. So there's all these symptoms and, and I know that I'm depressed and I I'm kind of like defaulting to those coping mechanisms of making myself happy through external means,
[00:25:21] Kristy Yee: [00:25:21] and that's the thing too, because. Depression. Doesn't just come. And then you're like in this dark corner by yourself and it's moist, you know,
[00:25:36] Yuling and then the word itself is like it dark, damp and Boyce plays, mushrooms growing. That doesn't seem like a very appealing thing. And I feel like that's what depression is painted. Yeah. A lot of the times, yeah. Listeners too. No, that, you know, if you're, if you're familiar with depression, then you might know that, you know, it, it's not always like that.
[00:25:57] And if you're not familiar with depression, And now I just wanted to point out that a lot of times, it's, it's not like that. you could end up being in that place, but you don't just like show up there. You don't just like open a door and then you end up there. A lot of the times, it's these little things that you don't even pick up, .
[00:26:16] You know, not feeling like not wanting to do laundry or not wanting to cook And then next thing you know, so it's like four weeks later and you haven't slept properly. You still haven't done laundry. I haven't exercised in a while. You spent like $300 in the last two days, you know? and, and then, and then that's it when you're like, Oh, hold up.
[00:26:34] What's going on and you won't even, I feel like one would only recognize that once they've already, you know, started to see therapy, I started to understand their own mental health a little bit more. And then you, you start picking up these signs and symptoms that you know, if you haven't been through a mental health journey already, then it might not be as easy to recognize these things.
[00:26:55] So it could go on for months, maybe even years before you realize that you're like, fuck. No, I'm depressed. You know, now I'm just face down on the carpet and I hate life.
[00:27:05] And you lose interest in the things that you normally find that are interesting, like cooking, right?
[00:27:09]Like, or reading yeah. Books.
[00:27:11] Angie Yu: [00:27:11] Yeah. Watching, watching shows. Yeah, I haven't done anything new. I have not, I didn't, I didn't go for a run for like three weeks and I went for a run on Friday, Friday
[00:27:23] Kristy Yee: [00:27:23] morning.
[00:27:24] Angie Yu: [00:27:24] And I sent you a voicemail, remember?
[00:27:26] Kristy Yee: [00:27:26] And I was like, I'm depressed. Yeah. Yup. So Now that you've, you're you recognize you're in a depressive state, we all say like we should reach out, talk to people about it, seek some support.
[00:27:41] What does that look like for you right now? And how do you feel about all these. All these things that we say when we're not in a depressive state, all this raw shit. How do you feel about that?
[00:27:54]Angie Yu: [00:27:54] I feel like, like, even just now when I teared up talking about why I was depressed, I haven't actually said that to anybody yet. So yeah. Talking about it does help because I do feel like the pressure has alleviated a little. But when I'm depressed, the last thing I want to do is talk to my friends about why I'm depressed, because I feel like a burden,
[00:28:18] And, and it's hard when it's a, it's a bad breakup because everyone's, you know, like, you know, like Lizzo, listen to Lizzo, just fucking move on.
[00:28:27] Right. But like, tell me how, just fucking tell me how and I'll do it.
[00:28:33]Kristy Yee: [00:28:33] But it's not that easy.
[00:28:34]It's never, it's never how it's being said. Cause it's never, it's always going to be harder than, than, than what people tell you to do. That's right. That's right. And it's so much more confusing when you're the first person as well, because you're feeling all these things and then you shame yourself for feeling it because.
[00:28:58] You think to yourself, he's not deserving of my tears or he's not deserving that I I'm thinking about him. And I shouldn't think about him. And then you feel bad for thinking about him all the while, still thinking and still grieving and then feeling bad that you're grieving, which is, I think even worse than just grieving on its own.
[00:29:23] Angie Yu: [00:29:23] That's right. And I think with the whole, you know, empowerment. which is a wonderful thing. A lot of it also comes with a little bit of toxic positivity as well.
[00:29:33] Kristy Yee: [00:29:33] Totally
[00:29:33]Angie Yu: [00:29:33] it's almost like I feel ashamed when I do. I feel bad when I feel ashamed when I'm still upset or, or, or I cry over it, I feel shame
[00:29:47] Kristy Yee: [00:29:47] because you're basically doing the things that all your friends are telling you not to do, or that you feel like you shouldn't
[00:29:54] Angie Yu: [00:29:54] do. Yeah. Like my, not even all my friends, but like just pop culture or like what, whatever is.
[00:30:02]Trending what society is telling me to do, and I'm not doing that. And then I feel shame because that's not my process.
[00:30:13] Kristy Yee: [00:30:13] You know what I feel like there are so many people out there who, who who've experienced a bad breakup and has felt similar things. And I have no answers to this. Like I have no solutions.
[00:30:27] I'm sorry,
[00:30:27] Angie Yu: [00:30:27] people,
[00:30:29]Kristy Yee: [00:30:29] like, I don't
[00:30:29] Angie Yu: [00:30:29] think there is a solution.
[00:30:31] Kristy Yee: [00:30:31] And, but what I think is really valuable for our listeners is to know that they're not alone in feeling this way and feeling this pressure to let it go and feeling the shame of. Thinking about this person, even though they don't deserve your energy or your time or your tears, but you still do it.
[00:30:56] And I think a lot of people go through that, but they do it on their own because they don't want to burden their friends and family. They also don't want to look weak and, and be shamed externally because you're already shaming yourself internally for doing it. So, so you also don't want to be shamed externally, so you're not telling them.
[00:31:16] And I, but I think it's so real. And, and I'm glad we're talking about this today. And hopefully listeners will know that they're not the only ones who've ever felt this way about a bad breakup.
[00:31:32]
[00:31:32] Angie Yu: [00:31:40] yeah, I do feel better now that we've We've talked about it.
[00:31:43] Kristy Yee: [00:31:43] See, he's talking about it, everybody. Yeah. That's the thing, Christie.
[00:31:47] Angie Yu: [00:31:47] And thank you listeners for listening to this,
[00:31:50]Kristy Yee: [00:31:50] but it's not easy to talk about it. And, and I don't know if this is a, a right or a wrong thing.
[00:31:56]but I do find that sometimes if, if it's hard to talk. Two friends, because you don't want to be a burden. Something that I have done, not too much, but I don't know. I don't want to call it a strategy, but something that I have used before is to talk about different chunks of it, to different people. At times, therefore I'm not just putting the same amount of stress onto the same person all the time, but I'm casting a wider net and I might not dump the whole load on them.
[00:32:33] I just might dump some parts of it. Yeah. With one person and then dump another part with another person. And then by the time I've recycle back to the first one, then maybe they're not so filled with my shit. You know what I mean? They'll be ready to accept more shit from me again.
[00:32:51] Angie Yu: [00:32:51] Yeah. So I
[00:32:53] Kristy Yee: [00:32:53] don't know if that's helpful for you or for any of our listeners, but, that's something that I have tried to do before.
[00:33:02] I keep hesitating because like, I'm also wait through some stuff, but I'm not telling anybody about it. So I feel very hypocritical. But if I think back to other times than I do, I do spread it out. And I share in different amounts in different chunks, because some people you're going to be way more closer with than others.
[00:33:21] And you feel like this is weird to just dump my whole shit on them. But, but if you do it in small amounts and when your relationship gets strong, like closer, because you're sharing something really vulnerable without like being big fucking dumping up pile of slugs on them. Well, I don't know why I'm thinking so late
[00:33:38] Angie Yu: [00:33:38] today, the visuals are not
[00:33:38] Kristy Yee: [00:33:38] very good.
[00:33:38] Your
[00:33:38] Angie Yu: [00:33:38] first funny outsider. So I haven't. So you, yeah, like you're obviously all this moist slugs. Analogy is coming from somewhere.
[00:33:43] Kristy Yee: [00:33:43] So turn over a reflection of what, or like it's an external reflection of what's happening.
[00:33:49] Angie Yu: [00:33:49] I'm going to turn this, relay these one 80 and point. And I, you, I don't know. I don't put the tea in front of you.
[00:34:00] I don't know.
[00:34:01]Kristy Yee: [00:34:01] Yeah. Well,
[00:34:02] Angie Yu: [00:34:02] what. Is making you so depressed?
[00:34:07] Kristy Yee: [00:34:07] I don't really know. But I it's a bad way to start.
[00:34:15] Angie Yu: [00:34:15] Well, I know
[00:34:17] Kristy Yee: [00:34:17] I maybe do know internally, but I haven't sat with it long enough to really verbalize what's going on, but what I have. At least come to terms with now is I recognize I am displaying symptoms of depression.
[00:34:32]Like I am feeling depressed. Whereas the last time we, we recorded an episode, which was episode seven, I listed up a bunch of stuff that was happening in my life. Like, you know, the things to do with my contractor, my mom being sick. I, I was like, Yeah, well, everybody has stuff to do. Right. And I just kinda, I wasn't acknowledging that it was making me feel really garbage.
[00:34:58] Cause that was a day when I dropped your plates and tripped over an air plant.
[00:35:02] Angie Yu: [00:35:02] Yes.
[00:35:03] Kristy Yee: [00:35:03] So
[00:35:05] Angie Yu: [00:35:05] I mean plan by the way.
[00:35:07] Kristy Yee: [00:35:07] Oh, very good. See corrective action. This is good.
[00:35:14] Okay. I've noticed, lately that I am still dropping things and tripping over stuff. I haven't been sleeping well, just like you for probably a few months now.
[00:35:38] Angie Yu: [00:35:38] I want to say that.
[00:35:40] Kristy Yee: [00:35:40] Well, Am I hiding it. I might be hiding it for myself, but I also want to point out that when someone is depressed, yes, they can be just very, I don't want to talk to people. I want to be in this dark room by myself, but they could also be like, like you and I were still laughing on this episode, you know, like we're not just, we're not just like, I hate life.
[00:35:59] Angie Yu: [00:35:59] Well, humor is, is one of the.
[00:36:01]Kristy Yee: [00:36:01] Coping mechanism.
[00:36:03] Angie Yu: [00:36:03] Yeah. That's why a lot of, comedians come out and say they're depressed and, you know, people like, you know,
[00:36:07]Kristy Yee: [00:36:07] Roslyn Williams. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Good point. Good point. So I guess what I'm. This is good, because then it showcases that, you know, it's not very obvious when someone is depressed and when you are feeling symptoms and it's not obvious to you, and it's not obvious to other people, because it might look very well hidden or disguised.
[00:36:24] And, you know, they're still happy go lucky, laughing, and going to work and all of that. But so what I've noticed is, yeah, the sleep has been bad. lately it's affecting my work. Like I'm forgetting appointments with my clients.
[00:36:40] Angie Yu: [00:36:40] Yeah. I noticed that too.
[00:36:41]Kristy Yee: [00:36:41] Like straight up just, Oh God, I hope I don't get fired for this.
[00:36:47] They've all been rectify, so it's okay. But it's the fact that I like that's so bad. That's so irresponsible that I'm forgetting things that I have to do for work. I. I usually there's always things on my plate. So that's, that's like a whole other thing. Like, why am I always filling my plate so full, but that's a whole other thing that I need to work on.
[00:37:11] What's up when
[00:37:13] Angie Yu: [00:37:13] you drop the plate foreshadowing.
[00:37:17] Kristy Yee: [00:37:17] Cause my plates all cut. Okay. I hope not. Well, it didn't shatter, so that's a good thing. Yeah.
[00:37:25] Angie Yu: [00:37:25] But it's a reminder,
[00:37:26]Kristy Yee: [00:37:26] that is something I need to work on that I, why do I always have that? This need to fill up my plate with stuff.
[00:37:33] And now my plate is so full. Usually what I do is I I'm a generally forgetful person anyways, so I have to keep this to do list. I have these calendars, I set reminders for myself lately. I have a fuck ton of reminders. So for little things that I just cannot remember. Okay. Hold on. Let me pull up my phone.
[00:37:54] Cause I can't give an example right now without looking at it because my, see my memory thing is not very good. If I go to my alarm clock session section. Yeah. I have one starting at 5:00 AM, six 45, seven 37 55, eight, eight, 15, eight 38 59, 10 15, 10 30, 10. I'm not going to keep going because it goes all the way until 11:43 PM at night.
[00:38:18] And some of these alarms, they're not actually like. Wake up alarms. They are alarms to remind myself to do something for it. So for example, I have one that says napkin. I have one that says email blank. I have one, this is gas receipt. I have one that says call the city about recycling. I have one, it says pharmacy, turn off appliances
[00:38:42]like I have to put all these reminders for all these mundane things, because I. I will not remember. I put an alarm for a tonight to take the recycling out because I am not going to remember it and I'm relying on it so much more than I usually do. I, this is something I already do like every day, but I'm noticing I'm doing it so much more.
[00:39:04]Like I am on the phone all the time, setting up fucking alarms. Thank God for Siri, because I can just tell her to do it.
[00:39:12] Angie Yu: [00:39:12] I have a question. Yeah. I thought I just saw a hummingbird. That was never,
[00:39:19] Kristy Yee: [00:39:19] how did it get to you live up high
[00:39:21] Angie Yu: [00:39:21] floor? Yeah. Or 13th floor. Yeah. I don't know, but it was beautiful and that made me feel really happy.
[00:39:30] Kristy Yee: [00:39:30] Oh,
[00:39:31] Angie Yu: [00:39:31] Aw. Cause nature. And it just reminds me that my problems are all in my head and you know, there is a whole world out there. That's right.
[00:39:42] Kristy Yee: [00:39:42] The flower,
[00:39:43] Angie Yu: [00:39:43] the flower. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. My question was, what is your 11:43 PM alarm?
[00:39:52] Kristy Yee: [00:39:52] Hmm. Let me take a look. I think it's meditation. Oh no, it's okay. It's bad. It's chart notes.
[00:40:00] Angie Yu: [00:40:00] Oh my God.
[00:40:02]Kristy Yee: [00:40:02] My meditation is 11:30 PM. My 1140.
[00:40:09]Angie Yu: [00:40:09] I feel like it should be the other way around. I feel like in your charting notes before your meditation,
[00:40:16] Kristy Yee: [00:40:16] well, you shouldn't be charting out at like 11 o'clock
[00:40:18] Angie Yu: [00:40:18] at night. No you shouldn't. And so yesterday, when you told me about how you were at the emergency room with your mom getting her Cova test, and then you're like, my phone's on 1%, it's an about to die.
[00:40:29] I like threw my phone down. I was like, Christie.
[00:40:32] Kristy Yee: [00:40:32] Okay. Here's the thing, it's all of that. But also the night before, I, I passed out and I just, I didn't charge my phone. Because I passed out with my phone in my hand cause I'm distracting myself. Cause it's hard for me to fall asleep. So similar to your Brooklyn, nine nine thing. I usually you watch YouTube videos, which is like, both of these are not good things you're supposed to not be on your phone, not have all this like screen stimulation or I'm supposed to like, you know how this like downtime, you know, like turn down service, you know, be like damn lights and shit an hour beforehand, like journal and read and like.
[00:41:07] You
[00:41:07] Angie Yu: [00:41:07] know, all of that. We're not
[00:41:09] Kristy Yee: [00:41:09] doing meditate, we're not doing any of this shit. And we know it, you know, it's because we've been to therapy and we know, we know the strategies, right. And, and that's even worse. We know not to do it and we do it anyways.
[00:41:23] Angie Yu: [00:41:23] And then we feel, and then we feel worse about it and then we have more game and then it's like a vicious cycle.
[00:41:29] Totally.
[00:41:30] Kristy Yee: [00:41:30] So basically I was on my phone. I was probably reading up some stuff or probably watching YouTube. And then you, you. Tire yourself out so much. That's right. That you're about to pass out. And that's the only way that you can fall asleep. You can't just like right off your phone, lie in bed and turn off the lights and close your eyes.
[00:41:48]So anyways, I've passed out, probably looking up some shit. Then the phone ended up not charged.
[00:41:55] Usually I charged my phone and then I start surfing. Right. So that if I do pass out, at least it still gets charged. But that particular night I didn't. And that's why when I woke up in the morning, my phone was already at 15% and I got woken up because my mom was calling me from the other room and she's like, I need to go to the emergency room.
[00:42:15] And that's how I woke up. Yeah. So in that
[00:42:17] Angie Yu: [00:42:17] moment, when I kind of threw my phone down, when you were like, my battery's on 1%, that to me was me seeing you as a flower.
[00:42:27]I was like, this isn't just like her phone is on 1%. Like, there's a reason why she's at the emergency room and her phone is on 1%.
[00:42:35] Kristy Yee: [00:42:35] Cool.
[00:42:35] Wow.
[00:42:36] Angie Yu: [00:42:36] Coupled with everything else that's been happening. I'm like, there's something bigger going on. That's why when your phone came back on and you're like, Hey, and then I sent you that voice message. Like what the fuck is going on Christie? Like, I don't mean like with your mom. I mean, like with you, like what's going on.
[00:42:51] Kristy Yee: [00:42:51] Yeah. It's, it's it's bad. Cause even, yes, you're saying all this and I'm thinking yesterday when I was, Texting my boyfriend as well. And I think right before I passed out last night, he just straight up send me a text message saying like I'm worried about. Okay. And that means that I'm showing it a lot more than I thought I am showing it.
[00:43:16] Angie Yu: [00:43:16] You're starting to slip up because if not, you can not suppress those. depressive behaviors anymore and it's getting worse. You know, the more you suppress the worst it's going to get.
[00:43:29] Kristy Yee: [00:43:29] Totally. And this brings me to my next point is that we're always talking about seeking, help, seeking support, talking to a friend.
[00:43:37] Now it's hard. And we mentioned this talking to a friend part it's hard, and some of the strategies is like spreading it out. But I also don't want to burden because people can only take on so much. I also don't want to be judged. There's still shame. Around seeing that, you know, Oh, I'm feeling depressed or, or I'm having an anxiety attack, even though I am upfront about it when I recognize it, when it's very apparent to my face and I can't hide it from myself anymore.
[00:44:09]then I will say it like it is, but I, that doesn't mean that I'm not ashamed by it. And. And yesterday when we were at the emergency room, one of like I was listing all these symptoms that my mom was feeling to the doctor. And one of the things that I added right at the end, right after, like I talked about this whole slew of medical shit and right at the end, I'm like, okay.
[00:44:33] She also has a little bit of anxiety and then the doctor. The whole time was very serious, like asking me probing questions about the specific symptoms. And then right when I was like, she also has bit of anxiety. They were like, Oh, I see. Wow. That is so judgmental. Hmm, incredibly well. And then I said out loud to this doctor, I was like, well, it doesn't, it doesn't discredit the fact that she's feeling all these physical symptoms and we should look into, you know, all of the testings to rule out any possible medical conditions that she could be experiencing.
[00:45:12] And then see if it's anything psychological. That's right. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, like they're like, yeah, we'll, we'll go through all of tests, but it was that initial reaction of like, Oh, that was so disappointing for me to hear.
[00:45:27] Angie Yu: [00:45:27] Really. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that. I feel like, I don't know.
[00:45:33] Do you think, and I'm not questioning, I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings. I'm just put putting that out there. I totally get that because you know, when I talk about mental health and stuff like that, of course, with my friends, everyone's super supportive. But if I mentioned it to, I don't know someone who I'm not that close with, not everyone's going to have the right reaction that you are looking
[00:45:56] Kristy Yee: [00:45:56] for.
[00:45:56] Yeah.
[00:45:57] Angie Yu: [00:45:57] And, but with this medical professional, I don't like I wasn't there. So I, I take your word for it, but maybe there could even be a little bit of projection
[00:46:07] Kristy Yee: [00:46:07] maybe
[00:46:08] Angie Yu: [00:46:08] and I know your experiences with the healthcare industry has not been
[00:46:12] Kristy Yee: [00:46:12] positive. Exactly. So it could, it could have came from that place where I'm like, okay, okay. Well, all these doctors that like judging us, you know, and like, Putting they're jumping into conclusions. Yeah. That's, that's big. It is. And they could be, and it could also be a projection of my own past experiences, because I did feel like the healthcare professionals at the time jumped into conclusions when they like put me in, in a psych ward.
[00:46:40] And so I didn't want, I didn't want, like, I didn't. I at no point did I think that they were going to put my mom in a psych ward? I just didn't want them to jump into the conclusions and just basically discredit any of the physical symptoms that she is feeling and just saying like, Oh, that all came from her anxiety and like not, not doing a proper diagnosis of it because there's a lot of unintended, stigma and judgment and biases.
[00:47:09] From the medical professionals, I feel like, and people can just easily jump into conclusions and not, not take the symptoms seriously and not go through the rigorous testing processes as they would, for someone who wasn't, who didn't have anxiety versus someone who does have anxiety. Then in the back of my mind, their mind subconsciously it could be like, Oh, it's probably just the anxiety.
[00:47:32] So like I'm not going to give a shit about it as much. And I feel like so many of that judgements that that can also project onto race too, right? Like, yeah. This person has all these symptoms, but because they're white, I'm going to care about them more and same thing with like fat shaming. This two people could have the same set of medical symptoms, but because one person is in a bit or body, then they're going to automatically or subconsciously think that, Oh, it's because they're fat.
[00:47:59] So they should lose weight first before we like rule out anything else before we try any other treatments, the first treatment is lose weight. Before I even give them anything else. But if it's as if it's a smaller bodied person and they display the same symptoms, they're going to give a lot more shit.
[00:48:12] They're going to try to find out why a lot harder, why this person's experiencing these symptoms and like give, go through a whole bunch of different treatments. yeah. And just kind of carrot tension to them just because they're not in a bigger body. Because there's that subconscious fat shaming. So I feel like the fat shaming, the racism, the stigma with mental health, it's all kind of, I don't want to put them in it's it, it, it can result to the similar thing, which is unfair, or biased treatment.
[00:48:45]Angie Yu: [00:48:45] Yeah, that's right. and the thing is, of course these implicit biases become way, way, way more intense and way more important in professions, such as the healthcare industry and in, you know, police because people's lives are in their hands. Right. Maybe, maybe, yeah.
[00:49:03] The supermarket, you know, there are implicit biases too, but it doesn't affect me as much. Versus if someone decided that they don't care about me as much because of the way I look and my life is in danger,
[00:49:17]Kristy Yee: [00:49:17] like they're going to give you a different medical treatment or a different diagnosis based off of what they see.
[00:49:24] Angie Yu: [00:49:24] That is such a good point. Yeah. The whole mental health. Like there's still a lot of stigma. Like we still, we, we still have that against ourselves.
[00:49:33] Kristy Yee: [00:49:33] Yeah. Clearly like, and, and that's the thing too, like right now in the last few days, I'm, I'm recognizing, I'm like, Oh shit, I'm actually really depressed. Cause there was one day when I just like laid on the floor.
[00:49:47] Angie Yu: [00:49:47] Come through me, a video of you lying on the floor and you're like, haven't been able to get up and I need to go shower. And I'm like, ah, clear symptoms. I'm just going to go out and say it. I think you're depressed.
[00:50:00] Kristy Yee: [00:50:00] I haven't internalized it then I definitely internalized it a lot more now. at the time. I, it was my fourth day of not showering when I sent you that video. So I didn't shower for four days. And I tried the night before I remember I was like, you know what? This is Dave three. You got to go see, you gotta go to work.
[00:50:21]You know, like just wash your hair, man. You know, that's the logical side speaking, go to the bathroom. I remember going to the bathroom. I like stripped down naked, you know, I was ready and I just needed to turn on the faucet and go in. And I paced around the bathroom for 45 minutes and I ended up just going back into my bed naked.
[00:50:41]Like I didn't even bother putting on PDAs. I, when I say paced, it was like a lot of different things. I, I think some of the anxiety came, so it was fidgeting a lot. So I was like, you know, sitting on the toilet, I'm not like. Peeing or anything, I'm just literally sitting there and then I get back up and then I sit back down.
[00:50:55] Yeah. On my phone, play with the magazines. I look in the mirror, I'm like looking at my blackheads, you know, like plucking my eyebrows. I'm like, you know, doing these little, like, you know, when you have your index finger and your middle finger and you kind of like make a little man shape. Like legs, legs, not man shape like legs.
[00:51:14] Angie Yu: [00:51:14] I'm like, you mean like a penis?
[00:51:16] Kristy Yee: [00:51:16] No, no. I mean like the legs, I mean like legs with pants. . So I would, you know, I would like run across the counter for 45 minutes. And I finally, I couldn't turn on the shower and I just went to bed. Well, and when I say went to bed, I mean, like go into my bed with my covers and like be on my phone until I, now looking back in hindsight, that was so fucking obvious. Yeah. That was a depressive moment. so collectively all of them things tripping over airplanes, not showering for getting my clients, lying down, like just not. Wanting to do anything. And I, I told my boss this and I took a couple of days off. but it was also like, it was hard to say something.
[00:52:01] Yeah. I think the conversation sounded like it, wasn't hard. Like I'm like, Hey, I'm not feeling so great. I'm feeling a little bit depressed. I think I'm going to take some days off and she's like, cool. Let me know how it can help take the days off, here are some resources that we have in the company for mental health.
[00:52:16] And they're helpful. Like part of that is like, I, I booked an appointment to speak to a counselor and it's free because it's like my company's paying for it. So that's nice. They, they, they are providing us additional mental health resources because of COVID. Yeah. but it made me think, okay, if I wasn't working, what am I going to do?
[00:52:37] Because I haven't seen my therapist in like a year. And the reason for that is because I don't have extended health. So does this mean mental health support is only available to people who have money. Yeah. And I feel like, yeah. Yeah. And that sucks because a lot of mental health distress comes from folks who are.
[00:52:57] We don't have a lot of money who might, who are experiencing a lot of stress and maybe they're experiencing a lot of stress because of multiple jobs. And they got like bills to pay and like kids to feed. And therefore they're more susceptible to mental health distress. And therefore they're the folks who actually need support even more, but they can't afford the support because it costs over $200 for therapy session.
[00:53:19] That's that's, that's fucking unfair. Like you can't access the health care support that you need. And I, and right now this is me speaking from a privileged place where I have a job and I'm still like, I haven't seen my therapist in a year and I just see my therapist and I'm like dying because I'm not seeing my therapist.
[00:53:37] What about the people who've never even seen a therapist, you know? Right. The grant. No.
[00:53:45] Angie Yu: [00:53:45] And
[00:53:47] Kristy Yee: [00:53:47] here's the thing you and I, we talk about talking about our shit, right? And clearly we're talking about our shit right now and sharing it with your friends and family and seeking mental health support. But there's also a lot of barriers to that.
[00:54:00] Like, there's shame around talking to your friends. You don't want to burden them too much. your family might not understand because they come from, you know, old school. education and, and they're not as woke. And, and so it's difficult to have those conversations with them and then you seek professional help, but then you can't because you can't afford it.
[00:54:21] So then what do you do? Fuck? Hmm. Here's the thing at this point, usually I'd be like, okay, well, if all of that goes to shit, then you know, doing little mindful, mindful therapy, tricks, like journaling and meditation. And here's the thing I can say all that during management phase, like when I'm not in a depressive phase, I do all of that.
[00:54:48] And it's really, really helpful. I haven't journaled in a while because the thought of picking up a pen and applying pressure from pen to paper is. Exhausting even thinking about like, I'm like, I really want to want to brain dump because I know it's going to feel good, but, but I can't even bring myself up to pick up the book.
[00:55:09] I can just the thought. Of picking up a pen and having to use that little muscle, you know, on your thumb, you know, the one that looks like, like a chicken thigh, or a chicken drumstick you know, that part of your hand the little mini chicken drumstick part, when you're using a pen, like that's the, that's the muscle.
[00:55:31] That you're using to grip the pen and glide along the paper. And the thought of having to flex that muscle is like, Oh my God, I'm so tired. I can't even. So then what, what kind of value can we provide if we're like, let's talk about your shit. Well, yeah.
[00:55:50]Angie Yu: [00:55:50] Fuck man. I don't know
[00:55:52] Kristy Yee: [00:55:52] favorite. We're not experts, but at least I hope someone who's out there feeling all of this. You're not alone. We're clearly feeling it right now. We're, we're in the depressive state and you know, we're gonna, we're gonna be in and out of this and it's not always obvious. It's not always obvious to us.
[00:56:11] And it's not always obvious to others. Sometimes it might be more obvious to others before it's even obvious to us. Right. And, and, and that's in some ways, I mean, like that's okay. That's okay. Take time to learn for yourself what your triggers are. It took Angie a few weeks, took me like few months and progressively, it just got worse and worse.
[00:56:32] Right. But I I'm recognizing, and so I hope that folks who are listening, even though we didn't provide any concrete. But you're not alone. And I hope that that's enough.
[00:56:45] Angie Yu: [00:56:45] And, you know, to be honest, yes, my therapist has helped me a lot in making sense of my emotions. And I'm one of those people that I need someone to teach me.
[00:56:57] Like I learned better when I learned from someone else. Someone who can guide me through, but I have also learned a lot just by reading articles online as well. So if I hear the word, you know, like my therapist talked about the three different coping coping systems that we have as humans, which is, you know, the soothing system, the reward system and the, the responsive system.
[00:57:25] So the response of his, you know, fight or flight, and that's where we have adrenaline for more, more of the short term responses, cortisol, which is, you know, stress, right. And that's responsive. And the other one's reward based, which is, you know, things like dopamine and in our community, in the Asian community, a lot of us grew up with those two systems.
[00:57:51] We're really familiar with. The anxiety inducing fight or flight system, and then the kind of chasing the dopamine high chains then D
[00:58:02] Kristy Yee: [00:58:02] the dopamine give some examples.
[00:58:05] Angie Yu: [00:58:05] Yeah. So like, I don't know, like I I'm sure everyone, John becomes more productive when they're cramming for an exam. Right because your, your adrenaline kicks in and you're like, fuck off.
[00:58:19] Oh fuck. And then you, you cram. And then, because you're stressed out by the stressor, which is an exam, and you use that as a way to kind of cope with this threat of possibly failing this exam or something that you know is important. Right. That's our modern day and saber tooth tiger. That's chasing us.
[00:58:41] And. So that's the, you know, adrenaline et cetera, et cetera. The second system is the reward system, which is dopamine driven, which is, you know, you want to get an a in school. You want to have a decent GPA, so you can chase more things like a master's degree, or you can get recognition from your peers or recognition from your parents.
[00:59:02] Right. The whole achievement thing. That's dope. Okay. And there's a third system called. The soothing system. And when my therapist taught this to me, I was like, what? There's a third system. And she's like, yeah, this system is not really used that much, especially in raring children in the Asian culture, the culture that we're very familiar with and in many other cultures, not just our culture, but it is a it's, it's a, it's a response system.
[00:59:34] That's not as practiced as
[00:59:36] Kristy Yee: [00:59:36] much. Maybe cause it's old school. Right. So, always like
[00:59:41] Angie Yu: [00:59:41] doting on your children and, and being there for the men, soothing them that we need that just as
[00:59:49] Kristy Yee: [00:59:49] much as Wu to me. Right.
[00:59:52] Angie Yu: [00:59:52] But that's, but that's oxytocin. And I think
[00:59:57] Kristy Yee: [00:59:57] that's very like millennial parents, like, which is. It makes me kind of cringe, not even millennial as that millennial, but it's
[01:00:06] Angie Yu: [01:00:06] like your stigma talking because you're so used to the other two types.
[01:00:10] Kristy Yee: [01:00:10] It's okay. So why, why I'm like, not down with it right now, maybe. Cause I don't understand it very much, but I think about, yeah, like participation marks. No, that's the wrong thing. Like when I'm, when everybody is rewarded with like constellation prize and it's like, nobody is a winner. Like I think about it like that.
[01:00:34] I'm like, well, then that's not. And like, that's that doesn't serve society very well. Right. Because then everybody's just gonna want some sort of a reward and, and like, that's not how, like,
[01:00:45] Angie Yu: [01:00:45] again, that's dopamine. You're thinking about dopamine.
[01:00:49] Kristy Yee: [01:00:49] Okay. And that's, that's, that's what I'm not down with. I'm like, I'm not down with everybody having a ribbon for just participating.
[01:00:55] Angie Yu: [01:00:55] I think you're, I don't want to be mean and be like, you're wrong, but I think you're kind of mixing up what you think it is versus what it
[01:01:07] Kristy Yee: [01:01:07] actually is.
[01:01:07] Yeah. So then that's, that's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like maybe I'm not understanding it very well because that's the, that's what I'm understanding.
[01:01:14] Angie Yu: [01:01:14] It's more like, let's say you didn't get a good grade and you feel sad. So you go to your parents, which is your primary caretakers. And if the parent only understands the first two and they want to motivate you to do better, next time, they're going to be like, Hey, if you get an, a next time, I'll buy you a PlayStation.
[01:01:37] That's dopamine based that's reward based, or their reaction could be, Hey, if you don't get an, a next time, I'm going to beat the shit out of you, which is stress induce, which is anxiety induce, which is the fight or flight response of system. Yeah, a soothing system would be like, why didn't you get an a, does an eight, does an AE really matter to you that much?
[01:02:00] Tell me more about how you feel your emotions and why you're so upset about this,
[01:02:06]Kristy Yee: [01:02:06] that a sock scene. Unheard of. Okay. So I see, I see how I didn't interpret it correctly. The first time.
[01:02:14]Angie Yu: [01:02:14] I wouldn't say it's unheard of, but it's definitely a system that's not practiced when we were growing up. It's I think it's being practiced more now in modern parenting books and
[01:02:24] Kristy Yee: [01:02:24] stuff.
[01:02:25] And I mean,
[01:02:26] Angie Yu: [01:02:26] for me, when I first, when, when she showed me these three different systems, I was like, there's a third system. Like, I didn't even like. And, and now I understand oxytocin, like oxytocin is the love hormone.
[01:02:40] It doesn't have to be romantic, but it's released when you feel like you belong somewhere. And it's mostly so, so the funny part is, when a woman orgasms, she produces more oxytocin than a man.
[01:02:54] Kristy Yee: [01:02:54] Hmm. Yeah.
[01:02:55]Angie Yu: [01:02:55] but oxytocin doesn't just come from sex. It comes from belonging. Community your choir thing. That's oxytocin. When I have a really nice wholesome conversation with my mom, that's oxytocin and that's, they've even done reading search where, in a, in a relationship they would, This sounds like so bad, but they would dose the husbands with small doses of oxytocin.
[01:03:22] And in the long term, these husbands were able to , stay faithful for longer.
[01:03:27] Kristy Yee: [01:03:27] What the fuck is that like ethical?
[01:03:30] Angie Yu: [01:03:30] I don't know, but I read that somewhere because I was doing so much reading about oxytocin to
[01:03:35] Kristy Yee: [01:03:35] understand. Yeah.
[01:03:37] Angie Yu: [01:03:37] I was like, What is oxytocin? Like it sounds, first of all, it sounds like a drug, like, well, it is,
[01:03:43]Kristy Yee: [01:03:43] well, I know what oxytocin is.
[01:03:45] I just didn't understand the soothing system. Cause it's not something that we're familiar with. And so I just didn't understand what that meant. So like, it felt like,
[01:03:57] Angie Yu: [01:03:57] Hmm. Oh, what I
[01:03:58] Kristy Yee: [01:03:58] mean? It's like, Oh, it's like, Oh, it's okay. You know, like, but it don't worry about it. And it's like,
[01:04:05] Angie Yu: [01:04:05] It is okay. Like, I feel like, like,
[01:04:08] Kristy Yee: [01:04:08] I feel like, okay,
[01:04:12] Angie Yu: [01:04:12] driven society, but achievement will never bring you happiness.
[01:04:18] And this is something that I'm starting to understand for myself. It's always, it's hard to practice it, but the more I think about it, the more I understand, like, Why is it that we are getting more rich and we're getting more stuff, but we're never happier.
[01:04:38]Kristy Yee: [01:04:38] I agree that money can't buy happiness.
[01:04:41] Angie Yu: [01:04:41] neither can the achievements, like it can bring you temporary, temporary happiness, but everything like all these different response systems, all these chemicals that are released, they're all just, this is gonna sound like Sombra's flock, but like, That's all we that's.
[01:04:55] All we are at the end of the day is we're just, we're these chemical producing bags of flesh,
[01:05:02] Kristy Yee: [01:05:02] our bags of flashes also just made out of chemicals. We're just a whole bunch of atoms put together.
[01:05:08] Angie Yu: [01:05:08] It's a wholesome though. When you think about it, like we're not here to like we're, we're part of the universe, like we're all chemicals.
[01:05:21] Kristy Yee: [01:05:21] This is getting really, really like
[01:05:24] Angie Yu: [01:05:24] where to God I'm not, hi, this is just how my brain works. I swear to God not hi, but sorry. My original point is that when I, she only mentioned the oxytocin thing for a little bit, it's not like she sat down with me and gave me a PowerPoint about it. I went home and did most of the research myself to understand more.
[01:05:42] So what I'm trying to say is, yes, I agree. The, the, you know, What do
[01:05:47] Kristy Yee: [01:05:47] you call it? The,
[01:05:48] Angie Yu: [01:05:48] mental health services are really inaccessible to some people in society, but even if you have all the money in the world and you keep throwing money at therapists and, and antidepressants or antianxiety medication, it's still not going to do anything unless you do the work yourself.
[01:06:07] So for me, like. I find therapy P really helpful because I'm learning that there are all these different things out there, and there are all these different methods of understanding how our brain works and I'm starting to do the research on my own so that I can understand myself. But most of the work that is done with my therapist is when I do it at home.
[01:06:31] because in that 60 minutes of a session with a therapist, I don't want achieve that much. I get these Epiphanes and then she teaches me things and I'm like, Holy shit, that makes so much sense, but I can't improve myself until I go home and do the homework myself.
[01:06:45] Kristy Yee: [01:06:45] Yeah, for sure.
[01:06:46] And I agree with that because a lot of things it's like, well, the therapy, the therapist is helps you make sense of it and guides you along the way, but then you have to do the work herself and you have to sit with your own thoughts and think about, you know, do all the homework and do the journaling and do the reflections, and then also do your own research and you need to be motivated to all do all those things as well for to better yourself and to help yourself.
[01:07:08] So you're going to need to be in that state of mind as well. And I agree, but I think what, what I was trying to get at is, okay, well, if you don't even have access to all of this, like if you don't, if you're not comfortable in sharing your, your depressive state with your friends and your family, because you don't want to burden them, or if they don't understand, and you don't have access access to a therapist or any sort of mental health support, and yes, there are free ones.
[01:07:36]quality might vary a lot as well as the waitlist is really fucking long, so it's not very accessible. And so then what can people do when, when they're just on their own and they don't even have the energy to pick up a
[01:07:51] Angie Yu: [01:07:51] pen?
[01:07:52] Kristy Yee: [01:07:52] that's where I'm like, I don't, I don't have the answers.
[01:07:56] Angie Yu: [01:07:56] I don't have an answer, but I have Something to say. And I think that's , a two part, like what your question is. I think it's two different questions. Like one the accessible thing. Like there's no solution that's gonna work for everyone out there. And even for us, like we can only help with our corner of the world. Right. Like we can try to do something for the people in our corner of the world and for the listeners who are listening to our podcasts, like one, thank you for listening.
[01:08:24] We really appreciate it too, for someone to be interested in our podcast, either they know us or they're really genuinely interested in the topic. And if they are interested in our topic, which is mostly around mental health, that they're already doing something further for themselves, which is educating themselves on these topics.
[01:08:42] And, you know, like I said, we're not. Experts. I feel like I have to say this every episode, we're not experts, but you know, you hear about these things. You hear people talk about depression or anxiety. We hear people talk about oxytocin, dopamine or addiction issues, and then you can kind of go out there and do some research on your own, the internet.
[01:09:00] There's lots of free resources. or you can buy a book for like 10 bucks. It's 20 bucks to, to learn about it more in depth. I I'm currently reading a book called master your emotions and I find it really useful. so that's one part of part, one of your question, part two, I think is the harder part when you're like even when, you're there and when you're in that pit depression, right.
[01:09:28] You're in that pit of depression and. you can't even pick up a pen. What can you do? And I was there a few months ago and I told my therapist that, and what she told me was that motivation doesn't come from thin air. at the time didn't seem very helpful. But over time it did become helpful. Inspiration can, but motivation people think that motivation leads to action, but it's actually the other way around. And that's what my therapist told me. Action equals motivation. When you start doing something, you get motivated to keep doing it.
[01:10:18] And the thing is it's, it's so much easier said than done. Like I'm being a hypocrite here because I haven't journaled in like a month. Yeah,
[01:10:28]Kristy Yee: [01:10:28] I'm thinking start small as well. So even if you, if you don't, cause I'm basically just thinking out loud for myself, I'm like therapy in myself right now.
[01:10:36] So even if I cannot pick up a pen, like just fucking stand outside and breathe in fresh air.
[01:10:43]Angie Yu: [01:10:43] if I
[01:10:43] Kristy Yee: [01:10:43] can't do that, then just sit the fuck down.
[01:10:47] Angie Yu: [01:10:47] So the fuck down. Yeah.
[01:10:49] Kristy Yee: [01:10:49] Like little things,
[01:10:50] Angie Yu: [01:10:50] you know, what I found really helpful
[01:10:52] is when I sent you those voice notes, that was kind of like my version of journaling.
[01:10:58] Kristy Yee: [01:10:58] Yes. I agree. Yeah.
[01:11:00] Angie Yu: [01:11:00] And you don't have to pick up a pen, you just send a voice note and if you don't have a trusted friend or family member to send it, to send it
[01:11:07] to yourself.
[01:11:08] Kristy Yee: [01:11:08] Okay.
[01:11:08] I feel really good about that one because. So what Angie and I mean is, neither of us have been journaling and that's something therapeutic that we normally do or regularly do, but because we're both in a depressive state right now, there's a lot of things that we normally do that we don't do, even if it's good for our mental health.
[01:11:27] So. Well, we started doing, and this was it. Wasn't a planned thing. we sent each other voice recordings of just our own thoughts and word vomiting, basically to each other about our thoughts and our feelings and the processes and all of that. And that in itself was really hard because I'm verbalizing my thoughts, which helps me.
[01:11:49] Organize my thoughts and make sense of it a little bit more. And it also feels relieving to say it out loud. Even if it's not to someone like you don't have to press send what I actually, I think Andrew also did it too, is I did a recording in my voice recorder, like on my phone. So I didn't send that to Angie and I just recorded for like 45 minutes.
[01:12:15] I think that's all on the recording was. and so I think that's a really, really good point that you brought up there. Angie, is that, you know, if you can't pick up a pen to journal, maybe this could be, this could be an alternative that requires a little bit less energy
[01:12:30] Angie Yu: [01:12:30] and I did that a lot last year, actually.
[01:12:33]when my relationship was in limbo and I. Couldn't talk to the other person about what the fuck was going on because there was so much lying and so much manipulation. The only way for me to really make sense of what I was going on inside my head was I just kept recording these voice notes when I couldn't sleep.
[01:12:51] Kristy Yee: [01:12:51] And
[01:12:52] Angie Yu: [01:12:52] I would basically record these voice notes until I pass it. kind of my version of crying myself to sleep because I was so exhausted that I couldn't cry anymore. And. And that sounds really fucking sad, but it worked, it got me through another night and sometimes that's that's all you can do is you look for a little bit of closure every day.
[01:13:17] You look for a little bit of meaning every day to keep going.
[01:13:22]Kristy Yee: [01:13:22] I think that is a really great way for us to just wrap up this episode for today.
[01:13:26] I'm going to hit stop recording. where do you want to say something?
[01:13:30] Angie Yu: [01:13:30] Did you, do we want to do any takeaways?
[01:13:32] Kristy Yee: [01:13:32] I was thinking about that too.
[01:13:34] Angie Yu: [01:13:34] we can do a couple. I think the
[01:13:36] Kristy Yee: [01:13:36] takeaway is like,
[01:13:37]Angie Yu: [01:13:37] don't, don't keep it to yourself. If you are feeling overwhelmed and you don't know what to do, like talk to someone, anyone. And if
[01:13:48] Kristy Yee: [01:13:48] it's hard to talk to someone, you can talk to yourself, whether that be journaling or through voice recording. That's right.
[01:13:57] Angie Yu: [01:13:57] And the second is like the mental health professional mental health service industry is really an accessible for a lot of people, unfortunately. and if you are. You know, if you have the means to, then we do recommend that you reach out for help. And if you don't have the means to, we recommend that you look online for resources that you can afford, like books and articles,
[01:14:21] Kristy Yee: [01:14:21] podcasts, and podcasts,
[01:14:25]I think finally is, is something that we've mentioned before is that symptoms aren't always apparent. And it could take a while for us to even recognize that there are symptoms because you could just be like, you know, today I'm just not in the mood today. Right? So you might not even notice that you're, we're actually displaying a depressive symptoms or going through a depressive phase. Until days, weeks, months, maybe people could be yours. Yup. And that's why I think it's really, it's powerful to check in with ourselves a lot and to learn, and we're both learning Angie and I, and to just keep learning more about yourself so that you do catch yourself maybe next time, a little bit more easily when you are about to enter or when you are in a depressive phase.
[01:15:16]Angie Yu: [01:15:16] That's right.
[01:15:17]Kristy Yee: [01:15:17] Alright. Well, hanging out with you guys next time.
[01:15:20] Thanks for joining us today. Bye. Bye.
