4. Sitting With Our Discomfort - BLM
Kristy and Angie discuss the pervasive anti-black racism in society and in the Asian-diaspora community. We throw away our original episode 4 plans to talk about and sit with a heavy subject that brings us a lot of discomfort.
Highlights:
Outdated stereotypes about the black community and in our own community
Reading lyrics from Akala, a British rapper, journalist, author, activist and poet
Going to Vancouver's downtown eastside to retrieve a phone
Takeaways:
Violence is not the root of racism, it's a symptom of a system that needs to change
We may not eradicate racism in our lifetime but we can accept that we are all racist and confront our own implicit biases as a step in the right direction
Talk through your discomfort around difficult subjects with friends and family members to grow together
Mentions/Resources:
Letters For Black Lives (Website)
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Transcript
HEADS UP: We use AI to help us transcribe so we can spend more time on the podcast. The transcription is not perfect. Please forgive any typos. They can be pretty funny though.
Episode 4: Sitting With Our Discomfort - BLM
[00:00:00] Angie Yu: And record.
[00:00:02] Kristy Yee: We are on, we are live.
[00:00:27] Angie Yu: We are live. Okay. So in today's episode, we are doing something a little bit different again, right? so Kristy walks into my house today and right off the bat, I could sense we both could sense something was different.
[00:00:44] But it was interesting because neither of us quite wanted to bring it up, even though we had been talking about this over WhatsApp and Instagram for the past few days.
[00:00:53] Kristy Yee: I think a big part of it is at least for me, I, I feel this heavy weighted blanket. I think,
[00:01:04] Angie Yu: which was supposed to be a comforting thing, a weighted blanket, but in this case it's not,
[00:01:10] Kristy Yee: it's not. And so when I walked into your apartment today, Angie, it was, it was like, I was just carrying some of that heavy blanket with me and I find it interesting that neither of us said anything to each other about it.
[00:01:27] We. Had dinner as per usual, before our recordings. And then we caught up with each other stay to day stuff, and then we were actually prepared. We were getting prepared to record an episode that we had. planned out. We had planned to talk about something else today and we got ready. We had an outline and we even talked about it over dinner about, you know, how today's episode will be structured and how we're going to go about it.
[00:01:57] And then right before we were about to set up, I th I don't know about you, but I think I subconsciously stalled a little bit in terms of actually getting into recording. That's right. And then did you feel the same? Yeah,
[00:02:12] Angie Yu: I did as well. And when I sat down to print out the outline, I sat down and was like, you know, I've been feeling really heavy these past couple of days.
[00:02:22] And it's just been really weighing on my mind. So to give you a little context, today is June 3rd, 2020. And it's funny because we were both clearly thinking it, but we did, like, we were waiting for the other person to bring it up because we didn't know. Right. Because we're still kind of new at this together. And this is definitely an issue that we both care about.
[00:02:47] And we both have been talking about it on social media. Yet. The funny thing is when we see each other in person, it's so hard to bring up.
[00:02:53] Kristy Yee: It's so different when you talk about things over the internet compared to talking about it face to face and, and, and for you and I to Angie, like, cause we are. The whole point of this podcast.
[00:03:05] So talk about stuff that we're all thinking about, but no one is willing to say out loud. And yet you and I, as co-hosts of this podcast, having that as our mission as our backbone, we still didn't address the elephant in the room. The moment we were in the same room together. Isn't that interesting?
[00:03:22] Angie Yu: That is interesting. And the thing is we both felt it. We both felt the elephant in the room, but we. Yeah, neither of us address. cause you're just like, well, clearly the other person's thinking about it, but are they, are they thinking about it because yeah, cause we had this plan, right? Like we plan to do this and do that and I'm just so glad that when we did bring it up, we were both like, yup. Yup. Let's we definitely need to talk about it.
[00:03:41] Kristy Yee: Yeah. So that's where we're going to do today. We're gonna, we're going to go into. I think, I mean, we have no structure because our structure was something else today. So we're just going to go.
[00:03:51] I was going to say Madlib, but that's
[00:03:53] Angie Yu: not. What is it when you like
[00:03:55] Add lib.
[00:03:56] Kristy Yee: Thank you. Thank you. I was closed off by one letter, bad blood. We're
[00:04:02] going to Madlib this and fill in the blanket.
[00:04:09] Yeah. So what has been happening at what's been going on for, for folks who might, you know, listen to this at a later date?
[00:04:17] Angie Yu: Yeah. So we're just gonna go out and say it outright. We're talking about the racism against black community in the U S and Canada, all over the world. the racism that is pervasive in the society. That we call home, which for us is Vancouver, Canada. The racism that's very pervasive here in North America.
[00:04:37] Pretty much everywhere I've been. I would say that. and yeah,
[00:04:41] this is an issue has never gone away, but people have been really good as suppressing talking about it. And. And of course with the death of mr. Floyd and everything it was kind of like the last straw for a lot of people.
[00:05:00] And I think, I think COVID has a little bit to do with it as well. I think, yeah. COVID really highlighted a lot of the inequalities.
[00:05:09] Kristy Yee: feel like with COVID within the Asian communities, COVID had really started to fan the flame that already existed
[00:05:20] with racism against Asian communities. Do you agree?
[00:05:26] Angie Yu: Yeah.
[00:05:27] Kristy Yee: And I feel like from that, and we're still experiencing it cause COVID is still around right now.
[00:05:34] Yeah. I feel like the sensitivities with racism has heightened because of what COVID had started not started, but ignite it, not ignited
[00:05:47] Angie Yu: by sensitivities around racism.
[00:05:49] Kristy Yee: I feel like there is more. There was more racism because of COVID against Asian communities.
[00:05:58] And then I feel like because there is now more racism, like outright racism, then maybe sensitivity is not the right word.
[00:06:05] Angie Yu: No, I don't think it's
[00:06:07] Kristy Yee: no word. No. What am I trying to say? There's more racial shit out in the world and, and more, and because of COVID, there's more racist shit towards Asian communities.
[00:06:19] And then when this incident had happened, the mr. Floyd, can I call it an incident?
[00:06:27] Angie Yu: The death of mr. Floyd?
[00:06:29] Kristy Yee: Yes.
[00:06:30] Angie Yu: It's I wouldn't, instead of makes it sound like
[00:06:32] Kristy Yee: it was downplaying Yeti.
[00:06:34] Angie Yu: Yeah. I think it does downplay a little bit. So this is how I see it. I see violence as a secondary
[00:06:41] result. Okay. It's it's, it's secondary.
[00:06:44] It's always the result of something. And that goes for both sides. Right? So violence, as a result of racism comes from hatred. It comes from pure hatred and not every racist is going to murder someone, but there are racists who murdered our people. And so the violence from that is a
[00:07:07] Kristy Yee: result
[00:07:07] Angie Yu: of the deeply rooted racism in America.
[00:07:11] And the other side would be the fact that the police just has way too much power in the U S and this is all systemic. And one, something like what we saw with the gun. Police officer who knelt on another human being's neck until the person died. Like even if we were all the same fucking race, which technically we are, because racial race is a social construct and we're all the human race.
[00:07:41] even if we were all the same fucking color when something like that happens, you're first. Instinct, shouldn't be like, what's wrong with that guy. The first instinct should be what the fuck is wrong with us, because that is a result of something much, much deeper. That's not him alone. And I think that's the thing that protestors are trying to get across.
[00:08:04] So all of these, all these quote unquote incidents, all these murders of black people in the U S by police officers, or even here in Canada. they're not like a one off incident. They're, they're a result of something much, much deeper and much, much bigger. And I think people do not have problem admitting that, Hey, there is violence because everyone can see that we can see there is violence.
[00:08:28] There are videos, gruesome videos, devaluing black lives. Like we can see that, but I think what it is is trying to get the idea across that. Hey, What you see is not everything. That's just the result of everything that's actually going on. And that's one thing. The one thing that I learned from my journey in practicing mindfulness, as one of the things, is like how to see.
[00:08:54] Right. And I think I told you the story before, from the how to see, from tic Nhat Hahn, which is a Vietnamese, Buddhist monk. He says, when you look at a flower, if you are not awake, you see that flower as just the flower, but when you have a deeper understanding of what you see and when you can actually see things, you don't just see the flower.
[00:09:18] You see the fact that the flour is part of nature, a nature that's so amazing, and that can nourish us and. You see that there has been sunshine to have allowed the flower to grow. There has been water and carbon dioxide and all that stuff that allows the flower to become what it is. So the flower is only a result of this entire system, all these different systems altogether, same thing with violence, like same thing with what we see in these really tragic appalling deaths from police brutality.
[00:09:53] Targeted at black men and women and black people is the fact that that's not what you're seeing as violence, but we, you should really see is what is causing this violence. Because to get to the point where a person feels like they can kneel on someone's neck, like who, like how much like, like that is just, there are just so much to unpack there.
[00:10:18] Well, when I, when I saw that, I, I just, I didn't even know what to think. Like, I'm just like, what is going on? Like, how is this even possible? How, how can somebody even think that even to the point where the person that's being killed is begging is asking for mercy, this person still did not relent. Like the system is so goddamn broken for that to actually have happened.
[00:10:43] And for the onlookers who are now. Well now have all been charged as well. Like for all the other police officers who watched him.
[00:10:52] Kristy Yee: I think there's so many good points there, What that police officer had done and what had happened, that is a result of something really broken in the system. And. Just like the flower analogy. It's not just about the incident. It's everything else that perpetuated, that led up to the incident happening.
[00:11:19] But what had it's, it's all the things that fed into this person, this policeman, to get them to, to think that this is, this is something. That they need to do
[00:11:35] Angie Yu: exactly.
[00:11:36] Kristy Yee: Like we were talking about the flower and then the sunshine and the carbon dioxide and the water. Well, my question is what was the water that fed this policemen
[00:11:48] like all of those things are all. Culprits too leading up to this event. So it was not just the policeman. And I feel like a lot of times, because this is not the first incident. No. And this sadly won't be the last one, I think in the past, at least for me, when I have seen news about.
[00:12:08] You know, police brutality or unfair trials or people getting shot and murdered because they are black or because they're indigenous, you know, from police we, we tend to, what is the opposite of victimize?
[00:12:24] Villainize. Villainize? Yes. Thank you. So we villainize the person that does the thing. Yes. But then. we kind of stopped there. You know, we don't step back and we don't look at it as a systemic issue. We don't look at it as a societal issue. And I think what's interesting this time around, because I'm at least I'm feeling the movement.
[00:12:46] The news is a lot bigger than some of the other ones were, even though it's about a death of somebody innocent that shouldn't have died. Because the root cause was racism. But I feel like this time is a little bit bigger because we're actually, we're actually looking at the systemic issue and not just looking at the person who did it.
[00:13:07] We're not just looking at the policemen. We're trying to reflect, to see, even within ourselves, like in our own communities like me and you, how are we, how are our actions perpetuating? This broken system.
[00:13:23] Angie Yu: That's right. So the last time that this was in the mainstream, causing mass recognition, was, in 2016 And I remember there was a call to action to the Asian American community. Like, Hey, read this letter to your parents. And you know what, in 2016, I didn't, I didn't do that. But yesterday I did. I finally read that letter to my parents four years later. And this is the letter to the parents of nonwhite nonblack communities to be like, Hey, it's not just white people.
[00:13:59] We are racist as well. And when I was talking to my parents, my parents fully admitted. That Chinese people are very racist because they love to stereotype. And they fully said, yup, Chinese people are one of the most racist people. and I say, you know what? I don't know if we can, for sure say that we are the most racist people, but we definitely have a lot of long held beliefs that need to be changed.
[00:14:25] And I'm really glad I had that conversation with my parents, even though it was really. Uncomfortable. Like, I, same thing. Like I got to my parents' house, I packed my microphone and my laptop with me to record it. And I was so excited about it. But when I stepped in the door, I was just like, Oh, Hmm. I just felt like that weight put on my shoulders
[00:14:48] Kristy Yee: weighted blanket came on.
[00:14:50] Angie Yu: yeah, and it was just like, I just felt so uncomfortable.
[00:14:53] And all throughout dinner, while I was eating, I was thinking to myself like, why am I feeling so uncomfortable? And I was trying to come from my own discomfort and being like, okay, this isn't about you. So after dinner, I did bring up the conversation and I read them the letter and the conversation went better than I expected it.
[00:15:13] It went the exact direction I expected, but, I was really relieved to hear that, even though my parents had said some things that were very, outdated when I,
[00:15:26] Kristy Yee: what were some other things.
[00:15:27] Angie Yu: so one of the things in the letter is saying , Hey , you know, The reason why you guys have all these perceptions about black people is this is what you believe in from the media.
[00:15:36] But I said to my parents, like have either of, you actually have ever been hurt by black people and they look at each other. They're like, you're right. No, we haven't. And I'm like, so how can you base any of your thoughts around something that has never, that you have never experienced? And they were like, actually, that's a really good point.
[00:15:58] But that kind of thought process, it's not even something that our parents' generation have because these type of discussions and dialogue was never a thing for them. And then one of the other thing they say is , Oh, you know, the stereotype in the Asian community is that black people are lazy.
[00:16:15] And my parents said that and my dad, well, my dad said that my mom's a lot more. Woke because she's a preschool teacher and they have workshops all the time. They bring in trans people, they brand black people. They bring people from you know, every important topic that needs to be talked about.
[00:16:33] And they bring in experts to these workshops to talk to the teachers and to educate them because they are shaping young minds. Right. So my mom's a lot more woke in that regard, but my dad was like, Oh, they're lazy. And he said that whenever he smoking in the alley, there's these black guys that come up to him and ask for free cigarettes.
[00:16:54] And he's like, but then one time they did come up to me and they wanted to buy cigarettes. It's just, they didn't have money the other time. And I was like, right. So it was just a misunderstanding and he's like, okay, true. and the other thing was, yeah, so they said that the stereotype is that black people are lazy and I'm like, but where does that stereotype come from?
[00:17:13] Are they lazy? Or have they been put in a society where it requires so much more effort for them to catch up to the rest of the rest of us? And my parents were like, Hmm, Never thought about it that way. my parents went to university in China. There were a lot of, African, international students in their universities. This was like in the eighties in China. And there still is. I think African international students is one of the largest group of international students in China.
[00:17:44] So I'm like, did you ever think that about the African international students? And they say, no, they didn't. So I'm like, so where are your, where are your perceptions coming from? And it's something that they picked up from North American media. And I thought that was really interesting.
[00:18:01] Kristy Yee: That is really interesting.
[00:18:03] I never would have thought about it that way. I also didn't know that there was a stereotype that black people are lazy.
[00:18:10] Angie Yu: Yeah, I think, I think Chinese people say that about every single other race,
[00:18:13] Kristy Yee: because we are the toughest ones
[00:18:15] Angie Yu: They think that were the toughest one. Chinese people say that about white people, Chinese people say that about black people, Chinese people say that about everyone. Who's not Chinese
[00:18:26] Kristy Yee: that I am familiar with. I feel like if, if anything, I mean, These are just all my assumptions, all my own thoughts. And I don't know if they're right or wrong. So I love to hear feedback and opinions from other folks too.
[00:18:41] But I feel like if anything, folks from the black community are more hardworking than ever than some of the more privileged groups, because they have to prove themselves that there's something that they're not, they have to prove against the stereotype, you know? And I feel like
[00:18:58] as a person from the Asian community, like we're, we're known to be the model minority. And sometimes I feel like I have to live up to that. Like that's part of my identity that I have to be the model minority
[00:19:12] Angie Yu: and there's so much. To unpack there as well. Like being a model minority, we think it's a good thing, but it's not because no matter how well and how well behaved and how compliant we are, we will never be seen as white.
[00:19:28] We will only be white adjacent, but we will never be seen as white,
[00:19:32] Kristy Yee: white adjacent. Yes. And so the point I think I was trying
[00:19:36] Angie Yu: to adjacent is a term. Oh, I didn't
[00:19:39] Kristy Yee: know that.
[00:19:39] Angie Yu: Yeah. Why adjacent is to describe people who are
[00:19:43] Kristy Yee: next to white people.
[00:19:45] Angie Yu: Exactly. And that would be a lot of East Asians because we do come from, a lot of privilege as well.
[00:19:52] And and of course it's not every person. It doesn't mean that just because you're East Asian, you are privileged just like how. You know, being white doesn't mean that you have an easy life. Like nobody says that, but the privilege that comes with being white only exists for white people.
[00:20:10] And the privilege that exists for East Asians only comes with being East Asian. That's what that term means. It doesn't mean that just because you're white, your life is going to be great. That's, it's not a guarantee like being white is not a guarantee that you're going to have a great life,
[00:20:24] Kristy Yee: Yeah. And so I feel like folks in the black community, they have to, they have to work extra hard because they don't come with that inherent privilege. And so, and, and on top of that, there's a stereotype that they have to prove against because that that works against them in society. Right. And so I feel like in some ways they have to work extra hard, which baffles me to think that there's this stereotype type to say that black people are lazy.
[00:20:54] It just feels like it's the opposite.
[00:20:56] Angie Yu: I feel like that's a really good point to say to our parents as well, because the Asian immigrant generation, they work so goddamn hard and they always tell us why they have to work hard so that they can get us to the same level as our white peers.
[00:21:18] And you can say the same thing for black people. Exactly.
[00:21:22] Kristy Yee: Like,
[00:21:22] Angie Yu: but mom and dad, like that same goes for black people and same goes for every other person of color. and are people going to call you lazy? Just because you're a preschool teacher now, instead of being I don't know the scientists you were back in China, like, no, it's because you're not afforded the same opportunities anymore.
[00:21:42] Kristy Yee: want to say that it's even harder. For folks in the black communities, just based off of the American history, because there's so much there so much deep rooted shit from there. And I feel like,
[00:21:56] like, I feel like it would be even harder.
[00:21:59] Angie Yu: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's a really good point. I totally agree. it would be harder. And you know, one of the things that I was thinking about because I was reading something online about someone who explained their own experiences with being a black person in America . And one of them was the fact that when they got into Harvard, you know, them being a Harvard was questioned by pretty much almost everyone. And then in one of their classes, one of the assignments was to read Malcolm X and a white kid in the class was like, Oh, I can't relate to this book.
[00:22:32] So I feel like I shouldn't have to read it.
[00:22:37] And that's just like, like that screams white privilege.
[00:22:42] Kristy Yee: That brings tears
[00:22:43] Angie Yu: to my eyes.
[00:22:44] Kristy Yee: Oh my gosh. Okay.
[00:22:47] Angie Yu: and I'll post this link . So you can read it as well. But it was an amazing read. And the thing is I related to a lot of the things that were said by this black woman in this post, right?
[00:22:58] What, the huge difference that I'm never in fear of my life. And that is the most important thing, right? Like we can, as Asian Americans, like we can relate to a lot of these. Discriminatory or just a lot of these racist experiences, but I have never once felt like my life was in danger because I'm yellow.
[00:23:23] Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's the key issue here, right?
[00:23:30] I'll tell you a story. Okay. Josh, I hope you you're listening to this. And this is something that I think about a lot. Josh is my friend who study the CFA with me. Josh and I, and two of our other friends. one is Persian. One's Russian was like the mini UN or something. So there was one summer. the four of us, we were on our way to like a CFA bootcamp and we met up in the morning downtown. We had some breakfast, we get in, our friend's car and we're driving to class.
[00:23:59] And then Josh is like, fuck, I can't find my phone. Where's my phone. And he literally bought the phone like the day before. And of course, we're all like, Oh my God, Josh, like, how could you lose your phone? Like, it's a brand new phone. And he's like, it must have fallen out of my pants when I got into the car.
[00:24:15] So we retrace our steps, we couldn't find it. So then we started using the, find my iPhone app and it was moving. The phone was moving. It moved from the Granville street area, all the way to downtown East side. And the whole time we were just tracking it. We were following it in the car. And of course, by the time we got to the downtown East side, the find my iPhone app is not that accurate.
[00:24:37] Right. So it's not accurate enough to tell us who has it. And I forgot who brought it up, but it was one of us who was like, why don't we call the cops? Let's just call the police, report it. Maybe the police can walk around and check who has the phone. Right. Josh looks over at me.
[00:24:52] He's like, wow. I would have never have thought about calling the police when I lose my phone. And I'm like, really I've called, I've made at least three police reports when I've lost my phone. And he's just like, yeah, it's just not like the police is not a group of people I would think to reach out for help.
[00:25:14] And that blew my mind. I was like, Holy shit. that is like a type of privilege that some of us don't even realize we have, where we can see the police officer as being protective over our rights. whereas someone who's black will see the police as someone to avoid, even if they have done absolutely nothing wrong.
[00:25:40] And this was in like 2016. Yeah.
[00:25:45] Kristy Yee: You know, what's interesting from just hearing this story right now. so Josh he didn't think to reach out to the police because like it didn't even cross his mind that these are people that could be helpful. And in fact, they are a group of people that should be avoided.
[00:26:01] And I feel like as a spectator, for, A black person or even a person of color to want to avoid the police. My first thought was they must be doing something shady. Like why would they want to avoid the police? If you want to avoid the police, then you're, you're a sketchy person or you're doing something you shouldn't be doing, but it never occurred to me that they avoid the police for the protection of themselves.
[00:26:25] Angie Yu: Exactly.
[00:26:25] Kristy Yee: it's like we see. We see people of color avoid police, and we're like, okay, then they're bad then I am, I am subconsciously perpetuating the stereotype, right. Because right. But yet the reason they're avoiding is something I would have never thought about.
[00:26:44] Angie Yu: that's our privilege. That is a privilege that we have. That is a privilege that we have that we don't even have to that when we see police, we take police at its face value. Hey, that's the police. They're supposed to be helping us out.
[00:27:00] Kristy Yee: Yeah. The police are here to protect society and protect our communities.
[00:27:03] And, and now I'm also thinking if I were to put myself in the police shoes, I'm not, I'm not shaming police, I'm not villainizing police. I'm just trying to understand things from, from different perspectives, even though I will never, because I'm not a, I'm not a black person and nor am I. In law enforcement, but I could imagine that if I was the police and, a certain group of people are avoiding me, then I'm going to think poorly of them too.
[00:27:37] therefore, the police. You know, one thing leads to another, right. Then they'll start painting everybody in that community with the same brush.
[00:27:45] Angie Yu: Yeah. And it's like a vicious cycle that just goes around and around. And of course, like We're not experts in any of this.
[00:27:52] so I don't, like, we all know that there is something wrong with the police system, the justice system in the U S And as you know, educated white collar, East Asian women, we know very little about that system because we don't know anybody who's in that system. And we will probably never come close to being in that system ourselves because we're taught to be good law abiding citizens, so that we're always white adjacent.
[00:28:21] Kristy Yee: And speaking of that, So I've been feeling very uncomfortable in the last few days because of everything that's going on. And I feel like, and, and there's lots of posts on Instagram and on, on the internet about, you know, if you're feeling uncomfortable and that's, that's a reflection of your privileged and I'm reflecting on that.
[00:28:40] And I am, I'm sinking in with that. I'm trying to grasp all that and shit. I totally just lost my train of thought. What were you saying
[00:28:43] Angie Yu: before? Oh
[00:28:43] Kristy Yee: yes. So, so, so what just came to mind right now is the fact that I really don't
[00:28:48] have black friends. And then beyond that, I also don't have too many friends who are people of different color than I am.
[00:29:01] And I feel like that in itself is also perpetuating the problem because I will, I am limiting myself to a certain bubble in a certain community. And it's so much easier for me to turn a blind eye or just be ignorant about so many things that are happening in the world. And for me to just not be a part of those conversations, I feel like.
[00:29:30] I am part of the problem
[00:29:32] Angie Yu: we all are, but you know why? Because this is a society's problem. So the fact that some people are like, Oh, I'm not black. I'm not a police. This isn't my problem. No . This isn't the problem of a certain group of people, whether that be the police or black people. This is a humanity issue and we're humans like this is, we are like, we are part of the problem, even if we don't know it.
[00:29:59] We're all part of the problem. There is no, there isn't, there's almost no individuality in this anymore because this is a systemic issue.
[00:30:10] Kristy Yee: Yeah. It's a systemic and a societal issue. And, and regardless if you choose to participate in this dialogue or not, You are still contributing to it in some matter.
[00:30:23] Angie Yu: Yeah. So you might as well participate. I'll learn something from it and be a better person.
[00:30:27] Kristy Yee: I think part of it also is like, why don't I have black friends? I don't have black friends and now I it's so much harder for me to empathize and so much harder for me to hear the stories and understand, because I don't get exposure to it, but like why, why don't I have, Why do I have Latino friends? Why do I have friends that are indigenous.
[00:30:45] Angie Yu: Okay. I'll point out some things with that. one, we grew up in an Asian bubble very much. So we grew up in an Asian bubble.
[00:30:56] Kristy Yee: Like our high school's 80% East Asian,
[00:30:59] Like the
[00:31:00] Angie Yu: high school that we went to was an Asian bubble.
[00:31:02] We were practically Singapore like,
[00:31:08] Kristy Yee: Oh man.
[00:31:11] Angie Yu: Yeah. So East Asian, Southeast Asian, cause we had Chinese, Korean Vietnamese, a huge Vietnamese population. So it was like we had East Asian, South Asian, Southeast Asian, and then 2% Eurasian basically. yeah, so we were Singapore and you know, what is it was the bubble.
[00:31:28] Like we grew up in an immigrant bubble and not only that We tend to identify with people who come from an immigrant background because that's how we were raised. And that was the majority of our social circle for a really long time. My circle really only expanded when I went abroad, which is funny because I actually went back to Asia.
[00:31:51] But, but my son was
[00:31:53] Kristy Yee: like, you went to China.
[00:31:55] Angie Yu: had friends from Brazil. I had friends from like, I had a black friend from the U S. I had African friends. I had, Russian friends, Italian friends, because everyone, because again, likeminded people, these are all people from their own country who were curious about the world and they ended up somewhere like China or Singapore.
[00:32:14] So it's always easy for us to settle down in the comfortable bubble of ours.
[00:32:22] Kristy Yee: And it's also easier. I feel like it's, it's. You make friends with people, you have things in common with. Right. And I feel like it's so much easier to find things in common with people who share either similar cultures or similar upbringings, et cetera.
[00:32:37] And I get that.
[00:32:39] Angie Yu: Yeah. Like for example, I, I would have never met my friend, Josh, if we were not studying for the CFA together, but now we talk like all the time. It just like sometimes when there's nothing to. Kind of connect you on an interest level. It's really hard to establish a friendship. And I think that's just the way things are.
[00:32:56] but there are ways to expand your friendship circles. If you think your friendship circle is too homogenous, You can always volunteer. You know, when the COVID thing is over, meet, meet new people, meet new friends. I think the idea of this, all of this all, like, I think it's good that you're questioning yourself, like questioning your friendships.
[00:33:14] Circle. I think that's really mature thing to do is not to be like I was not to be in denial of it. And now that you're aware of it, you can do something about it. Like my, my friendship circle is still 80% East Asian.
[00:33:27] but I think there's also a difference between genuinely establish as the other point that I wanted to bring up was that there is a difference between genuinely establishing a friendship with someone you value and you care about than going out to create those friendships, just to check a diversity box.
[00:33:42] Kristy Yee: That would be really sad.
[00:33:45] Angie Yu: That would be very sad.
[00:33:46] Kristy Yee: so checking off the diversity box.
[00:33:48] What do you think about that? Like, I feel like a lot of a
[00:33:53] Angie Yu: spoken thing as someone who helps someone checked off a box before. I would say no, don't do that. But I think the, I think, yeah, so anyway, we just wanted to clarify that we're not saying that you should go out and like expand your circle just for the sake of it.
[00:34:07] Yeah. But I'm saying like, Hey, the next time you meet someone from a different background, show some interest in getting to know them because I find, I find it that I always get stuck in this loop of. Conformity this loop of like familiar, aware. I can't talk this loop of familiar rarity. Oh my God. I can't say that word.
[00:34:29] Good enough. Can you say it
[00:34:31] Kristy Yee: familiar familiarity?
[00:34:37] Angie Yu: Yeah.
[00:34:38] I get, I get stuck in that loop because I'm like, Hey, I think this is also like my social anxiety as well. It's like, Hey, I know how to talk to people with the same background as me. I know how to talk to people like that. I know how to make them like me. Right. That's like a very social. Socially anxious thing.
[00:34:59] and I always get paranoid when I talk to someone that I'm not, that was someone from a background that I'm not familiar with because I'm afraid that I'm going to say something wrong and then you're not going to like me. Yeah. But I think one of the things for myself is that, you know, next time I meet someone regardless of who they are, even if they are East Asian, I could always use more East Asian friends.
[00:35:20] I'm not going to be like, Hey, you're East Asia. I have enough of you.
[00:35:24] But you know, like I think it's just like, that
[00:35:29] Kristy Yee: was also discrimination. Exactly.
[00:35:31] Angie Yu: Right. And I think it's just also like, like it's such a difficult thing to navigate around, but I think for myself, if I see someone. And they happened to be from a different background as being, I'm gonna try my best, not to let that hinder my interest in them, if that makes sense, because we're all racist
[00:35:51] Kristy Yee: yeah. I am racist also
[00:35:52] Angie Yu: we have these unconscious biases, because that's how we grew up. We are sponges. We absorbed all of these, Thoughts and, and, stereotypes from our environment. So we're, we're all racist and we, we're all biased and that's not our conscious fault, but how you react to those unconscious kind of, pushes like how you like, whether or not you let those things control your actions.
[00:36:19] I think that defines the kind of person you are.
[00:36:21] Kristy Yee: I think also recognizing Recognizing what your subconscious, racism is or what, where your stereotype is? like basically bringing the subconscious to a conscious level, if you can. So as I'm thinking about this right now, I'm like, yeah, it's, it's uncomfortable for me to approach a black person and like have a conversation with them as opposed to like, an, an East Asian person, just because of their looks.
[00:36:56] I feel like I could relate to them more and we probably have similar cultural. Upbringings and just based off of that, like without even talking to them, I feel more comfortable with them. And, and now I feel like, okay, the next time that happens, I need to recognize that discomfort and then, and then just acknowledge it and then, and then go with it anyways.
[00:37:21] Yeah. Yeah. And I think just that in itself will be helpful because then. I wouldn't even have, if I didn't put a conscious thought into it, I wouldn't have recognized that that was uncomfortable. I would have just subconsciously walked up to the East Asian person and had a conversation with them first because that's subconscious.
[00:37:42] That's right.
[00:37:42] Angie Yu: That's right. It's subconscious.
[00:37:43] Kristy Yee: And I think if we just take a moment to, to think to ourselves, you know, why won't I gravitate towards the black person more? and then just recognizing and acknowledging that it is uncomfortable would be a good first step, at least for me. And that hopefully one day I will have lots of friends.
[00:38:06] Angie Yu: So this is all about Kristy, I have
[00:38:09] Kristy Yee: no friends. This is just about me
[00:38:13] Angie Yu: having no.
[00:38:17] Kristy Yee: where was I going with
[00:38:18] Angie Yu: this?
[00:38:20] I think one of the key things I want, you know, The listeners to acknowledge is the fact that Christie and I are not saying that we know what we're doing. Like we're having this discussion because we started off our evening of podcast podcasting. Yeah. Is that what we're calling it? Our evening of podcasts
[00:38:41] Kristy Yee: podcasting, even with
[00:38:43] Angie Yu: this huge, like this amount of discomfort that we were both experiencing yet, nor wanting to talk about, and that.
[00:38:51] Like the fact that we both didn't want to bring it up and be like, Hey, like, you know what let's, why are we uncomfortable? Just drop it. Let's drop our BS act. This act, this decorum that we put on because we think that's what we're supposed to do. Like fuck decorum. Let's talk about why we're uncomfortable.
[00:39:10] You're uncomfortable about everything that's happening. Me too. You don't know what to do. Me too. Let's talk about it.
[00:39:17] Kristy Yee: So. Why are you uncomfortable, Angie?
[00:39:22] Angie Yu: Oh my God. I am uncomfortable because
[00:39:27] I'm uncomfortable because I feel like, I'm not doing enough and I don't know how to help. Yeah. Other than the fact that I can make donations to organizations. watch TV about black history and black culture to understand more about our black friends, read articles, and listen to what black people are saying.
[00:39:57] Amplify black voices, sharing things that people are talking about on Twitter on Instagram. I still feel like that's not enough. And I know that comes off very egotistical as well, right? Because I'm like, Oh, I should be doing more. And according to all the posts on Instagram, that is exactly what our black friends want us to do to, to, to support them.
[00:40:20] And I think, I think what I feel is kind of like that part of the existentialism is like that dread of like, how did we let things get so fucking bad?
[00:40:36] So there's this song that I keep putting on Instagram. it's by this British rapper called, co Kala, AKA LA.
[00:40:46] Kristy Yee: I saw that on your stories.
[00:40:47] Angie Yu: Yeah. So he is a rapper. He kind of, he isn't so actively producing music anymore because he started doing a lot more like educational and running programs for black youths in the UK.
[00:41:01] The the, the racial, like the system that puts black people down in the UK is also really fucking bad. It gets really bad over there too.
[00:41:13] Kristy Yee: they kind of started the whole slavery thing,
[00:41:17] Angie Yu: so, well, yeah, for sure. I mean, if you want to talk, talk about colonists, the Brits are definitely one of the key players, but that was
[00:41:26] Kristy Yee: super racist of me just now against the British people.
[00:41:29] Angie Yu: No, we're not talking about British people. We're talking about British history and British policies. Yes,
[00:41:33] Kristy Yee: you're right. Thank you. Okay,
[00:41:35] Angie Yu: now let's be honest. And
[00:41:37] Kristy Yee: the British people are a product
[00:41:38] Angie Yu: of their environment. Just how, like we are, Canadians, we are inherently racist towards indigenous people because we absorb all these false, stereotypes about our indigenous friends.
[00:41:50] Like what every country has something they're horrible at and yeah. And sorry. And so back to the, this rapper, he produces some great. lyrics and I learned so much from one of his songs. Like I learned so much from that one song that I keep sharing it.
[00:42:08] Kristy Yee: Let's, let's read a little bit about it.
[00:42:10] I think, yeah. Let's share that with our audience because when I listened to it, I was reading along the lyrics on the story and I just thought that they were so, so great.
[00:42:21] Angie Yu: so this is from fire in the booth part, one fire in the booth. It's like a freestyle thing that they record.
[00:42:27] It's
[00:42:27] Kristy Yee: scary. They're going to be like licensing issues. I
[00:42:30] Angie Yu: hope not because we're, we're not playing the music.
[00:42:33] Kristy Yee: We're just celebrating like beautiful lyrics,
[00:42:37] Angie Yu: just so it says, you know, In the 1920s, you would have found in America, black towns, prospering centers of economics and education to make you proud.
[00:42:49] But some people could impair that the former slaves would not just lie down. So the KKK and other hate groups burnt down those towns to the ground, killing hundreds. If it been understood, you think you were always living in the hood shit. It's only been 60 years since they hummed blocks and burned them.
[00:43:06] And that was so cool. They were are your pastors picnic baskets even gave kids the day off school to go see a lynching, have a picnic. It's fun to watch the little monkeys die. Then people act a little dysfunctional. And you want to pretend that you don't know why
[00:43:23] Kristy Yee: 60 years ago? Yeah.
[00:43:28] Angie Yu: In
[00:43:28] Kristy Yee: so many ways we have come very far. And I think that's something to celebrate. And I think also because it's only 60 years, so much of that hatred hasn't been unlearned yet.
[00:43:47] Angie Yu: That's right. And I also saw the thing, let me find it in my many, many, many, many. Instagram thing. So my, my, sisters, like are our Instagram group chat has just been constantly filled with this stuff for the, the last few days. And they're just so much content for me to scroll through.
[00:44:06] So you talk for a while while I find
[00:44:08] Kristy Yee: that. Yeah. I mean,
[00:44:11] I'm not trying to find an excuse. About why, why this is still happening. It boggles my mind. That is 2020,
[00:44:21] and we are still needing to go protest about Black lives matter about is 2020.
[00:44:30] Angie Yu: Yeah. So here's something that will blow your mind. Ruby bridges, the first block child at an all white public elementary school in Louisiana,
[00:44:40] Kristy Yee: Louisiana.
[00:44:42] Angie Yu: That sounds like a really long time ago.
[00:44:43] Right? The first block child at an all white public elementary school in Louisiana. That sounds like a really long time ago.
[00:44:55] Kristy Yee: Well, it sounds like it should be 1960s, but if you're going to tell me it's 1993, I'm just going to shit. My pants. Well, I'll probably fart because I feel one coming.
[00:45:03] Angie Yu: No, she turned 65 this year.
[00:45:06] So this was like,
[00:45:08] Kristy Yee: I can't do the math.
[00:45:08] Angie Yu: I can't do the math either.
[00:45:11] Kristy Yee: Should we do the math?
[00:45:13] she's 65 this year in 2020
[00:45:17] Angie Yu: so, and also this photo of her, I mean, she looks amazing for 65, first of all. And also she was hella cute. yeah, 65. So. that's only 10 years older than my parents. So it would have been the seventies, like the seventies or the sixties when she went into. Yeah, but the sixties wasn't even that long ago, like, especially here in North America, like there are still buildings around us that were built in the 1960s. And they, you know, like they're not
[00:45:47] Kristy Yee: buildings from like
[00:45:48] Angie Yu: 1910, I don't know.
[00:45:49] But the 1910 buildings look old, they look heritage. Like they look like they're from another century
[00:45:56] Kristy Yee: building. It's just look, they're just normal
[00:45:58] Angie Yu: buildings.
[00:45:59] Kristy Yee: Yeah, they're just, yeah, yeah,
[00:46:02] Angie Yu: you're right. You're right. You're right. So the fact that non
[00:46:04] Kristy Yee: modern, correct. They're not like historical buildings, they're just non modern
[00:46:09] Angie Yu: buildings, right?
[00:46:10] Yeah. But this woman is historical. the fact that she was the first black child at an first public elementary school in Louisiana is like a history piece of history.
[00:46:20] And she's just like, yeah. Walking around looking all fine. Yeah.
[00:46:24] Kristy Yee: Yeah. So I feel like in some ways, because time hasn't gone by there, hasn't been a lot of time that has gone by there's a lot, lot of that hatred that still exists and a lot of the misconceptions and stereotypes and all, all of that. Yeah.
[00:46:46] They still very much exists and in people that live in our communities. Yep. And, and then they'll, they'll likely pass on those beliefs to the next generation, et cetera, which is why I feel like education is so important.
[00:47:08] Angie Yu: Oh my God. Yeah. like when I, this is my own kind of, conduct is whenever I make monetary donations, I always make sure it's going towards some sort of educational, something that's really focused
[00:47:21] Kristy Yee: on education.
[00:47:23] That is a good cause I
[00:47:24] Angie Yu: really believe that that is the only way, because knowledge is power.
[00:47:29] Kristy Yee: Yes. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I even just think about myself or even Andrea, if you think about yourself right now, think about who you are today, your thoughts and your beliefs. And then think about the energy just five years ago.
[00:47:48] Angie Yu: Oh, I would've smacked that Angie in the face,
[00:47:51] Kristy Yee: like our knowledge and our belief changes and hopefully. In a progressive manner towards good and kindness. but it changes. What I'm saying is that that changes constantly all the time and education is such a huge part of it. In fact, I feel like that. I mean, I, when I say big part of it, I want to say it's all of it, your education and your, your experiences.
[00:48:20] Angie Yu: Well, and I think that's what. My question is I haven't done any research on this. I think I'm going to go do some research on this right after this. Is that the way that black people are treated in America? Is it progressing towards a good direction or is it regressing? Like, is it because it's regressing that that's why things are getting so bad or is it because of technology that things are actually just being revealed?
[00:48:47] Kristy Yee: Like, which is it,
[00:48:49] Angie Yu: Either way. I'm glad that the issue is now consciously on people's mind of the general mass cause before it was a very, it's not a niche issue, but it was a very, it was an issue that only kind of, you know, certain types of people would talk or care about.
[00:49:09] And now everyone's talking about it and this, I mean, I, I I haven't always been vocal. And I was just like, Ugh, I hate the fact that it's a trend, but I'm also glad that it's doing something.
[00:49:24] Kristy Yee: But in some, I mean, in many ways, It is a trend because the hype as great as it is, will die down. But I think what I hope at least is that from the hype, we are all a little bit more aware of ourselves and of our own privileges and, and aware of. This discomfort and where it's coming from. And hopefully just, just by having that, that pushes a little bit towards a more progressive direction.
[00:49:59] Yeah. For the better.
[00:50:00] Angie Yu: Exactly. And I want to kind of end on this note. This is something that I Christie, I mentioned to you before we started recording, is the idea of collective consciousness versus individual consciousness. And this is terms that I learned from Alan Watts, who is a philosopher that popularized Eastern philosophy for Western people.
[00:50:29] So the idea of the collective consciousness is we think that our individual consciousness is separate. When in fact the individual consciousness is the collective consciousness because the collective consciousness is made up of all of our individual consciousness. And we think that we have no power to change the collective consciousness, but that's not true because we are the collective consciousness.
[00:51:05] So if you think that changing your own. Behavior and changing your own biases and educating yourself, won't do anything to help. You're wrong. We're all wrong. It will help because once we start changing our individual consciousness, we are then directly changing the collective consciousness.
[00:51:31] Kristy Yee: Yeah. Only when we change our own consciousness, can we change the collective consciousness?
[00:51:38] So only when we better ourselves, can society progress and become better as well? Yeah.
[00:51:46] Angie Yu: And there's this saying in Chinese? This is, this is something that my mom was saying to me yesterday, and I think it's very wise as well, because not everyone has the capacity. To really speak out to voice what they're thinking, you know, and we're not saying that everyone has to be an activist, but working on yourself is a contribution to humanity.
[00:52:11] You know, they say that great people can contribute to humanity, but I don't think you need to be. You know, quote on quote, a great to contribute to humanity, because if you work on yourself, you're, you are humanity. We are humanity. So if you can work on yourself, that means other people don't have to take care of you.
[00:52:35] And if you have the capacity to, then you can take care of others too, but it really has to start, you know, inside as cheesy as this sounds.
[00:52:50] Kristy Yee: I think this is a good part to wrap up our episode for today.
[00:53:05] And I think we had quite a few takeaways. The first one being
[00:53:12] whenever we see an event like this, such as the death of mr. Floyd and all of the other ones that had happened in the past and sadly into the future as well, rather than. Villainizing the person who had done it. So in this case, villainizing the white policeman. I think it's, it's much more helpful to look at this as a systemic problem, rather than just pointing fingers at the person who did it.
[00:53:42] That's right. Because the person who did it is just a result. Of the problem that came from the system itself. And so just by sending this person to jail that's not going to fix the problem because the problem is not in that person, that person's just a result of the problem. The problem is in the system and it's in society and we are all part of society and we are all part of the system.
[00:54:06] take away number one is that whenever we see these tragic events happening, look into ourselves to find where the solutions will lie and look to see where the problem actually is coming from, rather than just pointing fingers at the villain.
[00:54:25] Angie Yu: That's right. Because villains don't exist.
[00:54:28] Bad people do exist, but again, everyone is a result. Everyone is a product of their environment , you know, basically okaying police brutality and of deep rooted racism in America. He's just a product and he is a symptom. You can lock him away. You know, he does deserve that.
[00:54:48] I'm not saying, we're not saying that he doesn't deserve to be locked away, but locking him away. like Chrissy said does not address the root of the problem.
[00:54:55] Kristy Yee: We don't just dust her hands and be like, that's that, you know exactly. We fixed it.
[00:55:00] Angie Yu: So one of the things to know is that if you are sharing.
[00:55:03] And you do want to talk about the stuff on your social media and with your friends, make sure that you're sharing more than just black violence and make sure that you're not just sharing all these clips, for the sake of it, because sharing the violence against black people will only further perpetuate these stereotypes that we have against black people.
[00:55:21] Yep.
[00:55:21] Kristy Yee: Absolutely.
[00:55:22] Angie Yu: It's violence porn. And that doesn't help. Just remember that the violence is only a symptom. Well, we should really be talking about is what's wrong with what's causing the symptoms?
[00:55:35] Kristy Yee: takeaway number two. Is recognizing that this is a systemic problem, but also that we are part of the system as well. So take away. Number two is. To look within yourself to see how can I be part of the solution just as I am part of the problem, how can my actions contribute to the solution?
[00:55:57] So right now, for me, I'm thinking I'm so uncomfortable about talking this. And I think that, I think that shows in today's episode, how uncomfortable I am, but that in itself has allowed me to really sit and reflect and understand my privilege. And then also thinking the next step. What can I do to at least not
[00:56:20] feed into the problem?
[00:56:22] Okay. We're not telling everyone to save the world. Cause we're not here to save the world, but we just want to open up these dialogues and think about how can our actions help drive society in a more progressive and kind direction. And I think that starts with looking within ourselves to see how are we part of the problem and how can we.
[00:56:45] guide ourselves as a society towards a better solution.
[00:56:49] Angie Yu: So for takeaway number three, we didn't really talk about this as much, but we want to emphasize, Hey, Christina, and I, we're not experts on this. We don't expect you to be experts.
[00:57:00] None of us can be experts on this because we don't actually experience this because we're not block, but what we can do is do our best try our best. Right? Because I think that matters more. They're not trying at all. And don't be so hard on yourselves because this isn't about you. This isn't about me.
[00:57:18] This isn't about Christie. This is, this is about the entire human race. Like this is a humanity issue. So even if you feel you have done something wrong or said something wrong, or if you have been very complicit in EV in racial situations, just tell yourself like, Hey, you didn't know better. Now, you know, there are plenty of resources online.
[00:57:40] We will share resources on Instagram as well. There are so much out there for you to learn, to watch, to listen to if you want to. And there's no point in looking back like, Oh my God, I can't believe I said this five years ago. I can't believe I used to use the N word. I can't believe you know, this and that. We evolve as people. And as long as the path that you're going down is the right path. Like that's okay. Don't be so hard on yourself. Set your ego aside because this is an about us as individuals. This is about humanity.
[00:58:17] Kristy Yee: And that's a wrap for this week's episode. Cool. Stay kind, everybody. We'll see you soon.
[00:58:24] Angie Yu: Bye. Bye.
